amps vs. simulators

[roscoenyc]

yes honestly proper touring amps and cabs are just for show, because any decent venue (even small ones) the crowd doesn't hear the amp, they hear the PA/FOH and those speakers and what the FOH person does. So it's mostly a vanity thing. Even when i was touring i was In Ears and the amp sometimes i forgot to turn on, never noticed.

No. Again, context. Not for show at all in my world, in any venue, but especially in a 500 and less cap room. The crowd most certainly hears the amps and in fact, we often make "FOH" (quotes because I've rarely encountered one that actually gives a shit) job much easier by balancing ourselves at a good volume before a mic even gets turned on.

Frankly, calling it "vanity" is bullshit, Even in instances when we rely heavily on FOH, the amps serve US by providing the sound we've slaved over for years. Without that, the performance suffers.

That's my experience also Recycled Brains. It's very rare that a person could count on the monitors to hear their own instruments. So many places may have only one or 2 mixes available. How about multi-band situations where you barely get a sound check? Now my experience is pretty limited as I've only been doing this for about 46 years but I still like having the right sized rig for the gig.

[digitaldrummer]

Every time I see a sound guy put a mic in front of a guitar amp with my bands I tell them "you won't need that". they don't usually believe me until the end of the night when they realize they never actually used it. and I think the bass DI is just there to make the kick drum sound muddy in the mains, right?

[vvv]

all sims:
https://vlayman.bandcamp.com/album/almictomx2-3-a-5p

[Recycled_Brains]

Every time I see a sound guy put a mic in front of a guitar amp with my bands I tell them "you won't need that". they don't usually believe me until the end of the night when they realize they never actually used it. and I think the bass DI is just there to make the kick drum sound muddy in the mains, right?

Don't even get me started on bass DI's in clubs. Jesus H. The number of times I've argued with dudes about mic'ing my bassist's rig or doing nothing instead of using a DI and gotten the response, "I don't have a bass mic", as if a 57 isn't totally fine.... oy.

I should note too that I did sound for a ton of shows at a club where I live between 2006 - 2011 and I would say 80-90% of the time, the only mics I turned on in the mains were vocals and bass drum (for a tiny bit of LF in the subs). Sometimes others strictly in the monitors and often only the drum monitor. Obviously acoustic shows and keyboards and stuff like that notwithstanding. I would have the band play 30 seconds of a song, tell the members what needed to come up or down to balance themselves, and that was the meat of what the audience heard. Got so bands would request me because they trusted me to do that part correctly and they loved it because it allowed them to be loud and proud like God intended.

[comfortstarr]

Interesting topic. I'm long out of the playing live game and only record at home these days. I've been through a bit of a journey with various low-volume/ITB methods, starting way back with Tech 21 GT-2.

Last year I was trying to use Logic's amp sims and just wasn't happy. I have a Peavey Classic 20 that I kind of use for my control sound. So, I embarked on a ton of experimentation. Started by trying a ton of soft sim demos. From those, I liked the Quad DSP and the S-Gear the best (went ahead and bought S-Gear which I think is amazing).

Still, from reading, I wanted to try a pedal-type simulator, so I bought a NUX Amp Academy. I really thought/think that was great. I know it's very likely psychosomatic, but I did feel like it "felt" different than entirely software based sims; more dynamic. I happened to score a used Boss GT-1000 Core around the same time. I finally got the sims in that to sound good too (by finding some very simple presets). The Amp Academy will likely get sold. The Boss can do bass too, which is my original instrument, plus it has good basic Boss effects.

Again, no idea about playing live, but for recording... this stuff is so much better than it was in the 90s and early 2000s. The GT-1000 thing feels like magic to me. I connect it to the computer, can record wet and dry.

[vvv]

My first use of simulators was a good 20 years ago when I ran a Hafler T2 preamp into a Microcab II.

I still have them and they still sound good, altho' being mounted in my studio rack means I can't use 'em for jams.

I have a an old and cheap Zoom GM200 which is analog, and surprisingly useful, but plastic and tweaky and kinda toy-like.

I have a couple-3 of the 90's Zoom floor multiFX, some of which have patches - not real into 'em, me. Same with the current Vox.

But they are fine for the occasional overdub or color part.

A couple years ago I scored an 11 Rack for cheap, and it can sound really good with a little tweaking, altho' digital isn't my fave format - mind over matter I'm sure - but it is also racked.

I have pedals from Tech 21 to Catalinbread to Joyo to AMT to One Control to Digitech to Radial and cab sims like the Omnicab and Hotone and another one or two Chinese ones.

We have a blast using 'em as it greatly simplifies recording the band all at once while in my living room and yet ...

I bought a new Fender Bassbreaker 15 amp in the last month or so, and sound-wise, as well as as a player, I just love amps more.

But listen to the link above, and tell me you could tell those are sims and not amps - betcha can't.

The intonation/intoxication issues make 'em sound even more real.