mics for orchestra

[jbdaddy]

I am tech director for a theater that hosts lots of acoustic ensembles, from string quartets to school bands to symphonic orchestras. I'm looking for some recommendations for a stereo pair to record everything with. I need pristine detail but the ability to handle very loud passges without distortion. Of course I want stereophile depth, clarity, and fullness. I unfortunately don't have the budget for matched Neumanns or the more expensive choices. Any one have good luck with any mics in the <$500 range?

[MASSIVE Mastering]

That's going to limit you pretty hard.

Two worthy contenders -

Shure SM-81's - Probably the most "universally usefull" microphone out there, and the M-Audio Solaris. Bigger, stronger, "phatter" than most mics in that range (and many above it). I've done orchestras with nothing more than a pair of those. The detail was pretty shocking.

[brew]

i would look at the Josephson C42, Oktava MC012, and AKG 451. These are all small diaphram cardioid condensors, which to me is ideal for this kind of setup. I'm sure Audio-Technica makes something in this range as well, but I'm not familiar with them. The Oktava is probably the only one exactly in your price range, but the others are worth considering.

I'd fly them over the stage in ORTF--that'll pretty much cover every ensemble for a nice turnkey arrangement with minimal fuss.

[Rigsby]

I've not miced an orchestra, but i'm wondering if the 451 and possibly some of the other SDCs will be a little on the bright side, lacking some of the warmth from the lower strings (cellos, bass)?

That's a question, not a statement.

[bigtoe]

i think the 81's would be great. used em for orchestras...i've used the 4051's and thems are good too...maybe becasue i used used to em but i prefered the 81's...

the 451 is a bit top-y to me...but actually with the small diaphragm stuff...you'd be surprised how well the lows come out...in fact you get better lows with the small omni's...

blab, off to spring in ohio. happy new year...i'm not hungover! i must be growing up.

Mike

[Stephen B.]

I would agree that for your price range, the Oktava mics are going to be a good bet. You may even be able to buy two pair, one with the cardiod capsule and the other pair with omnis. That way you could do the aforementioned ORTF pair in the center, and then a pair of spaced omnis. I've done a lot of this type of recording, but until I added the spaced pair the recordings lacked that wide stereo spread. I would like to emphasize that placement should be precise, ORTF has the diaphrams at 110 degrees, 17cm apart. Since I started bringing a protractor and a ruler, it is never a crapshoot the way it used to be. And for the spaced pair (if you decide to use them) follow the 3:1 rule to avoid phase issues (at least three times as far apart as the mics are from the source/ensemble). Someone else mentioned the Solaris. I haven't heard this mic, but it would offer some interesting options like M/S recording, which is really nice if you have a good hall in which to record.

[Rigsby]

I would agree that for your price range, the Oktava mics are going to be a good bet. You may even be able to buy two pair, one with the cardiod capsule and the other pair with omnis. That way you could do the aforementioned ORTF pair in the center, and then a pair of spaced omnis. I've done a lot of this type of recording, but until I added the spaced pair the recordings lacked that wide stereo spread. I would like to emphasize that placement should be precise, ORTF has the diaphrams at 110 degrees, 17cm apart. Since I started bringing a protractor and a ruler, it is never a crapshoot the way it used to be. And for the spaced pair (if you decide to use them) follow the 3:1 rule to avoid phase issues (at least three times as far apart as the mics are from the source/ensemble). Someone else mentioned the Solaris. I haven't heard this mic, but it would offer some interesting options like M/S recording, which is really nice if you have a good hall in which to record.

Great post, thanks.

[MASSIVE Mastering]

I've got to disagree with the Oktava's... I get to do an awful lot of experimentation using different mic's for orchestral and ensemble situations...

IMHO, as great as the Oktavas are for close and close-ambient mic'ing, they don't have the juice for distant setups - End of the hall to pick up the room? Sure. But when they *are* the room, no way.

The last "shootout" I did was with the 012's, 81's, 414's and Solaris mics.

Just preamp-to-recorder stuff. The 012's sounded "pretty nice" until I flipped over to the 81's, which were worlds better in clarity and spaciousness (like lifting a blanket off the 012's). The 414's sounded exactly as I expected - "real" - a little dull for me, but very nice.

The big surprise was the Solaris... Good Gawd...

Let's just say that I don't use the 414's anymore...

But if I had to pick a pair to be used consistently - a "set it and forget it" pair for orchestral stuff, it wouldn't be the 012's. Not a chance. If the budget was $200, maybe.

For spot mic's - I'm all over 'em. If there's a harpist that needs a little "oomph" or some hand percussion for a Pops concert, I start pulling out all the 012's - Again, as they're wonderful for what's close, and sort of "lose focus" of what's far. But there's probably going to be a pair of 81's or Solaris mics overhead...

[bluntphunk]

you might want to try a nice pair of omnidirectional mics. i have had really good results with a pair of correctly spaced omnis

[Huntlabs]

The big surprise was the Solaris... Good Gawd...

Let's just say that I don't use the 414's anymore...

If they are that good perhaps you would do a mic review and add it to the list????

I'm interested.

Thanks

[cgarges]

I've done plenty of hall recording with 414s, 4050s, 4051s, 451s, KM84s, Avensons, and Oktavas and the Oktavas are usually my first choice now. They aren't as bright as the 451s and 4051s and I prefer that. They also have more clarity in distance recording than any of the other mic I mentioned. Placement is pretty critical with these, but when is it not if you're trying to achieve a balance of direct and room sound? I'm with Massive though on the 414s. I haven't used those in a hall setup in a long time.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC