bad habits in R&B/Hip Hop

[tiger vomitt]

when the lead guitar comes in at the end and it's played so badly... well that has just been pissing me off to no end. I interpret it as the people who recorded that song having no clue how to record guitars well or how a well played guitar sounds.

ha! that's really funny cuz that's the exact song i was thinking about

i remember the 1st time i heard it, i was really put off by how crappy the ending guitar is. i mean, they already sampled the original song, so it's not as if they didnt have access to the sample..

i kept thinking about it and the only conclusion i could come to was that they did it that way on purpose. a sort of screw you to the rock thing. maybe it's not that literal the way they meant it.

maybe lil jon played it and he's the crappiest guitarist ever and he just thought it was really funny to have himself play guitar on the track. who knows...

[Family Hoof]

Tigervomit, you've got a valid argument dere. My consluion is based on the fact that acoustic instruments are completely absent from 95% of hip hop/r&b songs. From this I assume that the current engineers/producers involved wouldn't know how to work well with anything that isn't a synth or sampler. I'm not a rap-rock fan whatsoever, but this devoid of acoustically generated sounds phenomenon really turns me off to the aforementioned genres a lot of the time.

[b3groover]

I was listening to the local modern R&B/rap station for about 20 minutes on my drive back from the gig tonight, and I started thinking about the following:

Why is it that we live in an age where most people have extreme attention deficit disorder and yet 99.9% of modern hiphop/R&B is composed of a single four bar phrase repeated ad nauseum?

What ever happened to tension and release? Chord changes? A bridge? This is especially annoying in R&B. It seems like the craft of songwriting has pretty much died.

Or maybe I'm expecting too much...

[Scodiddly]

Would be nice to see more live bands behind rappers. A few years ago with MTV's Unplugged they had a rap show, a handful of different rappers with a live (grungesque) band. It was great... LL Cool J doing "Mama Said Knock You Out" with a really energetic band behind him. Much more exciting than somebody talking over "beats", LL was really getting into it.

[JonJ1176]

pet peev's:
compression happy engineers, HARSH highs, overdubs not matching, hearing mic proximity, hearing digital distortion, reverb happy eng., A DON'T CARE ATTITUDE, etc.

Why is it that we live in an age where most people have extreme attention deficit disorder and yet 99.9% of modern hiphop/R&B is composed of a single four bar phrase repeated ad nauseum?

many don't understand the production aspect of hip hop/r&b because they don't understand the genre. dance and rhythm are a vital aspect so that is why you will hear 4 bars repeated throughout. sometimes chords and key changes will disrupt the flow. think techno without the gay prancyness

it's the opposite of the jerkoff in linkin park that raps. he's not a real rapper, but it's just enough of the flavor to make the suburbanites get a boner.

hilarious! i def. agree

1) Bringing the entire posse to a session and letting them in the control room. It makes for a horrible working environment. You can't hear shit, yet you fear for your life when telling them to be quiet.

what?! fear for your life? thats funny. most bands i record bring 5 bandmembers and 10 groupies, and thats what they wanna do. thats the business. deal with it. if you can't take it, kick'em out. its your studio! oh, and i like that whole "posse" thing. that's cute

i began this thread because there are many mistakes hip hop engineers are making and the labels let the trash hit stores and radio. it's a disgrace, and it lowers the bar for quality recordings

i like Puffy and his worth ethic, but sorry to say he has some of the worst recordings. his studio in Manhattan is equipped with the best in audio gear but the end product is trash! anyone who has heard the Making The Band album knows what i mean. there are many more examples

i began engineering/producing primarily rap and R/B clients from my little project studio while in college. after school and an internship in DC (cuerecording.com) i'm staff at a commercial studio with clients from local rock bands, country acts, opera, and good'ol rap and r&b.

[tiger vomitt]

A few years ago with MTV's Unplugged they had a rap show, a handful of different rappers with a live (grungesque) band. It was great... LL Cool J doing "Mama Said Knock You Out" with a really energetic band behind him. Much more exciting than somebody talking over "beats", LL was really getting into it.

a few years ago? haha that was more than 10 years ago!

haha old fart awesome (im old too at 31, i just thought it was funny)

[b3groover]

pet peev's:
compression happy engineers, HARSH highs, overdubs not matching, hearing mic proximity, hearing digital distortion, reverb happy eng., A DON'T CARE ATTITUDE, etc.

Why is it that we live in an age where most people have extreme attention deficit disorder and yet 99.9% of modern hiphop/R&B is composed of a single four bar phrase repeated ad nauseum?

many don't understand the production aspect of hip hop/r&b because they don't understand the genre. dance and rhythm are a vital aspect so that is why you will hear 4 bars repeated throughout. sometimes chords and key changes will disrupt the flow. think techno without the gay prancyness

Maybe I don't understand it, but it sounds lazy to me.

"Hey, we need a song."

"Well, here's a four bar phrase that I played once."

"That's all we need! Quick, record some whiny vocals!"

I'm speaking mainly of modern R&B here.

[tiger vomitt]

oh you mean like james brown or the talking heads?

[radiationroom]

In an attempt to better our R&B and Hip Hop recordings, what are some bad habits and mistakes you hear repeated within this genre?

NOT PLACING STRICT LIMITS ON THE NUMBER OF ENTERAGE THAT THE RECORDING ARTISTS AND PRODUCERS BRINGS WITH THEM! It's like the main rapper has his posse of about 20 guys and the alternate rapper brings another 15 guys and the DJ brings a few of his friends and the producer brings a couple of people and the production manager brings a couple of people and every one of them has a girlfriend and soon enough you have a hundred or so people in your studio and that ain't cool.

73's - Carli

[rfbutter]

Would be nice to see more live bands behind rappers. A few years ago with MTV's Unplugged they had a rap show, a handful of different rappers with a live (grungesque) band. It was great... LL Cool J doing "Mama Said Knock You Out" with a really energetic band behind him. Much more exciting than somebody talking over "beats", LL was really getting into it.

If your looking for good live hip-hop check out the group Hieruspecs out of Minneapolis. Tried to find a website to no avail.

I wish producers would not rely on their triton's onboard sounds so much. Go dig and find yourself a good, FRESH(ie never used before) sample. I know there can be a bit of a backlash on this forum when it comes to sampling, but in my opinion the best hip-hop ever made was 88-95. Producers like Prince Paul, Diamond D, early RZA, Beatnuts, etc.

[Zeppelin4Life]

sampling kick ass bands. that just kills it. and using timless riffs. Thats just a huge no no. If pop/rap/RB has lost creativity the worst thing they could do it ruin a classic.
'

im not to into the live bands with rap. hey, rap is fine, but when you take bad rap, bad rock, well u end up with something like Kid Rock...

[b3groover]

oh you mean like james brown or the talking heads?

I see your point. I wouldn't call James Brown's vocal style "whiny" though. Also, I think the difference between Brown repeating phrases and modern R&B is that modern R&B is quantized drum machines and synths. Brown's band, although tight, were musicians and thus tempos are not perfect, hits are not exactly on, the feel moves and is organic. Drum machines and sequencers, no matter how much you turn the "groove" knob, are robotic.

So maybe Scodiddly's idea of live bands behind rappers would make a difference?

[dynomike]

sampling kick ass bands. that just kills it. and using timless riffs. Thats just a huge no no. If pop/rap/RB has lost creativity the worst thing they could do it ruin a classic.
'

im not to into the live bands with rap. hey, rap is fine, but when you take bad rap, bad rock, well u end up with something like Kid Rock...

I dunno man, I think it works pretty well for the roots.. most obvious example.

I would say my biggest beef is the lack of chord changes! How much effort does it take to move your finger to a different note on your synth bass? I guess this is stylistic, but I've always found it more impactful to at least have some kind of chord progression throughout the song.

[fuckface]

ya ive always been into the roots. that roots live album is great too

[d-bolan]

My buddy records rap all the time at his place. I always pop in and hangout. It's so funny they just show up with a cd and a posse and double track into a U87 through an avalon. Then mixing takes 8 minutes and they're on their way home. Kinda sad. It's amazing how often he says they pull out guns. Rappers often want the sound of a glock on their shit so they just bring a fucken gun. Poor guy