Miking Brushed Drums (on a budget of course)

[inverseroom]

So I have gotten sick of the sound of my drum machines in the home studio and am putting together a little drum kit to play, on selected songs, with brushes. Anybody have any recording suggestions? I am going to try a pair of SM57s on booms crossed over my head. I've also got an Oktava MK319, a Studio Projects C1, and this obscure Japanese "Eagle Products" stereo mic I haven't used yet. I'm going into a cheapo ART Pro MPA, an RNC, and an Akai DPS16. I'll try a bunch of stuff of course but would welcome a few tips from people with experience.

By the way: no kick drum. Just snare and floor tom. And ride/crash, hi-hat, and a little china.

This new board is great. I get to use my MYSTERY MAN PORTRAIT!!!

--John.

[TapeOpHillary]

try the japanese mic like maybe above your lap (where the kick WOULD be) so one side picks up the floor tom and the other picks up the snare
-hillary

[I'm Painting Again]

try putting the mics closer than usualll for those brushesss.

try everything.
:ar15:

[djimbe]

Got access to an omni-directional mic? Thing about brushes is the lack of a consistant and small target area, which is compounded by possible low playing volume. Get a directional mic real close to pick up the low volume playing and you get some proximity effect low end bump which may not be so good for a brush part, and also you could have the brushes moving in and out of the "sweet" zone of the mic. An omni reduces such problems, but can cause some problems of it's own, like lotsa unwanted room noise if yer not careful about placement. Also you might think about tracking the brush work alone, then overdub or add another track of the cymbal sounds. A bit more involved, but it can help keep the brush work sounding tight with no huge bleed from cymbals on that snare mic you have turned way up. Other than that, I'd say pay attention to the condition of the batter head on the snare, 'cause alotta the sound comes from the brush bristles tickling the texture that is usually on a snare batter head (worn heads can be very no good for brushes), and also try brushes with different bristle materials (like metal or nylon wires) and bristle diameters. They all sound different on a particular head, and only you can judge what sound is the best one for your tunes. Good luck...

[soundguy]

Ive never had to record brushes, but my first thought would be to use a condenser on the snare. I dont know what kind of perspective you are going for on the kit, but if it is all brush work on the snare, I think a condenser will give you a totally different kind of definition on the brushes than a dynamic normally would. I dont generally like a condenser on a snare, I always find its too much skin sound, but for brushes, thats exactly what I would want to hear.

dave

[Professor]

You're going to need at least two vintage, pre-1972 AKG C-12 mics up above the kit, fed into a couple of vintage Neve preamp channels that have been fully recapped.

Just kidding. Though I will say that you should not try using the SM57 mics as overheads, that is a common attempt that people make and a cause of the common complaint about bad sounding drums. The 57 is a dynamic mic that is meant to be right up on a loud instrument, and you have it far away from a soft instrument. The idea of overheads is to get the overall sound and image of the drum set, then the kick mic is added (in normal setups) because it projects out and not up, and the snare mic is added for steering and/or impact. Try something like that stereo mic up above the drummer's head just like you see in pictures. This will also give you more high frequency material on the set and therefore, more stereo imaging and air around the instruments. Honestly there shouldn't be much of an issue with the brushes at that point. If you need more out of them, put one of the 57s over it, or if the brushes are going the entire time and not coming through well you can use one of the other condensers, and tell the drummer to get a new head with fresh coating and wire brushes, not plastic. Either way, remember that the overhead mic is the most important for drums and should generally be the best mic you own (assuming you don't need it elsewhere like on piano).
Give that a try and let us know how it turns out.

-J

[Red Rockets Glare]

try putting a piece of paper over the snare head when you're brushin'

[inverseroom]

Okay, these are excellent suggestions--esp. the one about close miking the snare and tom and then overdubbing cymbals, because I AM NOT A DRUMMER!, and this would cover up my incompetence. I will try everything & report back on this thread in a week or two--but please!, if you have more ideas, post 'em. Thanks for all the quick replies!

[Gebo]

I just recorded some "brushed" drums the other day using a C1 as an overhead (lower than i would normall put it. and a 57 on the snare. I think it sounded good. Well, it sounded exactly how I wanted it to...

[Flight Feathers]

i think the c1 as an overhead and an sm57 on the snare will be just fine. or the stereo mic as an overhead.

your setup sounds very similar to the Low drummers, and they have an awesome sound. maybe you should try and a find some articles about them, they were in a recent tapeop.

are you using the floor tom for lack of owning a kick, or is that the setup you want? because a floor tom can be converted to a kick pretty easily, you just need to get your hands on a kick pedal and sticka pillow in there.

[timbaier]

I have done this several times recently. I always use a condenser (either LD or SD) and throw on compression to try and even out the inherent uneven-ness in brushes without over compressing, in which case it will start to not sound like brushes anymore. I put the mic anywhere from 2 to 4 feet away, pointed directly at the center of the drum head.

I'm not a drummer either and recently found myself in the position where I was overdubbing the snare drum with brushes for a recording. Take it from me, record it with the tape running slow. When you bring it back up to speed, your timing errors are greatly lessened!!

[inverseroom]

I know I risk overwhelming my own posting, but I gotta tell Ion Records that I LOVE LOW, and their setup is exactly what I was going for. I have a family that requires a bit of quiet (my wife & I work at home) and so whacking on a full kit was not an option--but for a certain atmosphere this setup ought to sound good. Any compression tips?

[d franko]

Maybe instead of brushes, you should use bundle sticks. It would still be quiet. Also, iy you're not a drummer they would be easier to manage.

[trashy]

I completely agree with timbaier about slowing the tape speed down. It will make the timbre of your set higher (so be cautious), but will really go a long way toward eliminating the timing mistakes us crap-for-drummers make. Also, brushes do wonders in the same area, because there is a inherent "fuzziness" to the sound of a brush hitting a head, as opposed to a stick, which reveals even a millisecond's difference.
As for compression: very carefully. Part of the joy of brushes is the range of the sounds you can get, whether it's the shimmer of slipping the brush across the head, or the satisfying WACK of a quick jerk of the wrist.
Good Luck!
p.s. post the mp3's

[LeedyGuy]

I did these drums with a 57 on the snare not too high up, sorta close and then with 2 Oktava 012's for the overheads and an sm81 on the hh.

http://www.greentothink.com/music/alison_rose.mp3

what do you think? maybe its a little brighter than you want to be?