Throw some bass ideas at me...

[q1w2e3r4]

I'm mixing a band and need to find a way to make the bass a little more clear and present in the mix. The band plays, for the most part, a loud rock-based music. The bass sounds like it was recorded well, great player, signal is good on the tape, it's just when everything is together that I sort of lose the presence. You feel it more than you hear it. He plays really good stuff that I think needs to be heard more.

I have a direct track, an RE-20 on the amp, and a ribbon (an RCA 44, I think) on the amp to choose from. I dig the direct the best, though the ribbon does have a real cool sound at times.

Pass along some ideas (I know, I know I should use my ears, and every case is unique, but I'm just looking for some things to try out...) for EQ settings or compressor settings I should try. I've been tinkering with it for a week or so already. Compressor-wise, I have an RNC, a Composer Pro, a DBX 164, and some Aphex 108 Easy Rider Compressor to choose from. Oh, also, it's an analog recording.

Thanks all. And thanks for all the other great ideas in the past...

[joel hamilton]

To make it more clear and present in the mix I usually distort it.

Seriously.

[soundguy]

agreed.

dave

[record]

"Distort it" is a good idea. but first check your phase. The phase relationship between bass and other instruments with low end - guitars, etc. can be important. If the bass is out of phase with something sharing the same frequency band, it will affect it. They will tend to cancel each other out if they are in the same place in the stereo field, but even if they're not, it can make a difference. It might be a good idea to solo the bass and then go through the guitars one by one and solo them and play with the phase. Also check it against the kick drum. And, the most important thing, make sure your d.i. and mic are in phase with each other.

Get it the best you can using phase relationships, then play with your compressors and distortion.

[joel hamilton]

A frequency will not be consistently "out of phase" with another instrument.

The bass DI, and mic signals may be phasey.

That should be obvious, but the rest of the post above is misinformation, plain and simple.

To make a blanket statement, that is very much false, does nothing but perpetuate lame myths about recording, and freak out some poor kid trying to get better results...

Maybe you are subject to this very concept. Read up on phase relationships.

[cgarges]

Holy cow, Joel. Bad day at work?

Every sound is different if it goes from pulling the speaker cone to pushing. It's subtle, and yes, it is dependent on a number of things including constantly changing presence of certain frequencies, but there is a difference.

All of the above are good suggestions, including not freaking out or depending on everything you read for answers.

How about thinking about what you can get out of the way of the bass sound, especially if you like it on it's own? Now may be a time to experiment with high pass filters and see if what they take away from other instruments might be more of what you want in your bass sound. (This stuff is all about give and take, right?) Start by gutting some of the low stuff from the kick drum. Don't yank it all out, but start pulling out stuff in really small amounts. Like a dB or two. See if that makes a difference. Next, try it on your toms mics, if you're not expanding/gating. See if those ringing toms are causing a bit of rumble that's eating up your sonic real estate. Next maybe try taking some sub stuff out of your guitar tracks, especially if they were recorded in the vacinity of the bass or drums at the same time. (God forbid we should have musicians playing at the same time somewhat near each other.)

See if any of that helps.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Flight Feathers]

yes, what everyone else said.

stuff i do:

check phase between mic and di. i have to do it via a sample delay plugin in logic, it does the trick. but most of the time i'll use just the di and forget about the mic altogether.

i do hi-pass on almost everything - guitars, vocals, kick. the frequency depends on the instrument.

distort - a highly distorted bass when solo'ed hardly sounds distorted at all in the mix. i've been using the sansamp bass driver for this.

cut out frequencies form the bass with very high Q's, especially in the low mids - 100-300 Hz. also song and sound dependent.

i never ever boost bass eq.

send this prosessed bass to a comp via an aux send, slam that signal (medium-fast attack, high ratio, low threshold), and mix it back in with the original bass.

sometimes i'll boost in the 1k region to enhance the pick noise.


anyway, i'm just learning to mix myself, and this is the stuff that's been working for me. mixing is really fucking hard..

ayan

[soundguy]

joels just pissy because he had to talk to me on the phone tonight.

Im contagious.

joel has a sexy phone voice though, goes well with candlelight walks on the beach by the fire.

dave

[Brett Siler]

Eq some low end out of the bass. Try taking frequecies below 30 or 40 out, or down some. Also I don't know about you but I really don't like to use gates on recordings. It makes drums sound to choppy.

[djslayerissick]

if you dont want to 'feel' the bass as much, and would rather hear it instead, it seems pretty simple to me:

let the listener feel the kick instead. take out 6dB or so of low end (about 110hz and below) out of the bass. add a bit of overdrive/fuzz/distortion mixed in with the original signal. then boost the volume level a little.

and dont be afraid to take out some guitar low end to compensate for the added bass freqs.

[MD]

I'm just a lowly homerecorder, so take this with a grain of salt.

When I can feel but not hear bass, it usually needs more attack and (sometimes) less body. As Ayan said, a little EQ to emphasize finger or pick noise.

Or a slightly slow attack on a compresser to get more attack.

-MD

[Slider]

compress that bass!! if it's not sitting in the track... squash the fucker!
that and try multing it out to a sans amp, or a overdrive petal to an amp would help. it's been said already but some dirt will make it sit better in the track.

[joel hamilton]

Wow, I was pissed.

Luckily everyone else gave good answers....

[record]

A frequency will not be consistently "out of phase" with another instrument.

The bass DI, and mic signals may be phasey.

That should be obvious, but the rest of the post above is misinformation, plain and simple.

To make a blanket statement, that is very much false, does nothing but perpetuate lame myths about recording, and freak out some poor kid trying to get better results...

Maybe you are subject to this very concept. Read up on phase relationships.

Joel, with all due respect, I spend a lot more time listening than reading technical manuals. As it is, I'm 46 years old and I've been recording and producing music since I was 17. And I will say again, phase DOES make a difference. Try recording an acoustic guitar, then have the bass play a line that follows the low strings of the guitar. You will notice (If you're listening) that playing with the phase of the bass does make a subtle difference, sometimes a big difference. It will also make a difference in it's relationship with a kick drum. Again, try it. The frequencies will interact, and you will percieve a change in the character of the kick drum as you reverse the phase of the bass. Same with electric guitar, especially a stack of distorted guitars. The bass may change from being muddy to actually supporting the harmonic content.

Technical information, as always, is no substitute for experience.

regards,

[q1w2e3r4]

Thanks for the ideas. I dig the distortion trick, though I'd imagine I'll have to be riding the faders in some sections, as the music does have quiet bits.

Tell me, is there an easy way to flip phase on an old analog board?

Also, the board has HF 12kHz/8kHz and LF 120Hz/80Hz switches, but I'll be goddamned if I hear any difference at all when these are pressed.