Venue/Promoter getting a cut from Merch?

[trodden]

OK, now i find this absurd, given in the context. We played a show last night and the Promoter took 10% from Merch sales. I knew that this happened, and usually its with metal bands selling $30 t-shirts... BUT,
1. we're a local band.
2. We were not paid for the gig. our "payment" was being allowed to play such a kickass show, and for that i do not mind.
3. We charge $8 for our shirts and CD's.
4. I believe it was $10 to get into the show.

Does this happen in other places? We've toured the states for the last 6 years and i've never dealt with this before. The other thing, is I consider the promoter a friend and work for this person doing stage hand stuff time to time. Should i mention that i don't agree with this? I didn't deal with this last night, and the girlfriend carted me away right after the last chord of the last band... what do you all think?

[Randy]

I think it is ridiculous. I know that large acts have such agreements, but it is in conjunction with a bunch of other negotiations that surround the show, and I have only heard it happening when there is a lot of merch moving around and unit costs are really low. I doubt you were printing up 5,000 shirts at a time and 10,000 CDs at a time getting the volume discounts. With his 10% out, you probably aren't even breaking even.

It sounds like this promoter-friend is a real tweak.

my $0.02.

Randy

[Dingo]

lets see, it sounds to me like you just paid to play.Dumbass. Did he just steal it or was it part of your contract? if it wasn't you just got stolen from. I would also reconsider the approach of working for free, not to mention paying to play. Sorry I called you a dumbass. I just get frustrated with musicicans who "just want to rock" and "not worry about the money" and wonder why they get screwed financially at every turn.

[trodden]

Dumbass?
fuck off.
ok? got that?
i wanted some advice but not to be insulted. come say it to my face and we'll see who the dumbass is, really. I've had a lot of coffee this morning and working off the hang over from last night. don't fuck with me.

As the case of "just wanting to rock" when Mastadon is one of you favorite bands, and rarely does this promoter put local bands on their bill cause they usually deal with package deals, i think just "wanting to rock" is pretty good attitude. We definately showed a few people that we can pack a fucking punch for a bunch laid back nice people.

[XXGABEXX]

I don't agree with this at all. Maybe you can get it in writing for the future that this will not occur any more UNLESS you have an agreed amount of payment coming from the bar/door. In my experience, merchandise was often the sole source of income on the road.

The only more bizarre thing I've run into while out on the road was where you're asked what band you're there to see when you pay the cover. For every person there to see them a band gets a little tick mark. So yea, it was cool to get a show with the local kool-kids 'cause kids show up to see them, but they ended up with all the cash in those instances. And I've actually run into that a few times. The merch deal I've only seen maybe once and that was with a bigger band I believe.

[tyson]

That merch thing is bullshit, but I guess I'd probably do it if it were a can't-miss opportunity (and Mastodon are pretty fucking badass).

The "who are you here to see" thing goes on a lot in Los Angeles. Sometimes they do it when it's a whole bunch of small, local bands to see if they draw or not, which I think is understandable.

[Marc Alan Goodman]

Taking a percentage of the merch is standard practice at most larger (read: clear channel) venues, usualy 1200+ capacity. Sometimes these larger places will even have their own merch staff who you're required to let sell for you at some rediculous cost (for instance, the Electric Factory in Philadelphia). Occasionally you'll run into a smaller venue where the person running it just got out of "music business school" and thinks they know how things work, so they tag the percentage on there figuring that it's acceptable. It's not, but those people are stupid and they'll either figure things out or get run out of business eventually.

As far as paying bands based on how many people show up. I've seen this at plenty of smaller venues, especially when all of the acts are local. In that case it makes sense, seeing how the venue wants to know how many people each band can actually bring so they know who to ask back. I've had it work for me and against me. If you're a touring band you should do your best to work it out in advance that you will either get (A) a guarantee or (B) a percentage of the total door. Most people who run venues will understand that if you're touring, though you don't necessarily bring as many people to a show in a town you've never been to before, you still need enough money to pay for gas/ eat lunch / fix the van/ etc. Anybody who doesn't get this shouldn't be asking touring bands to come play at their venue, or should at least warn the bands that they may lose money.

Sorry to but in and act like an expert but this stuff really gets on my nerves. For some reason the kids who put on shows in VFW halls always seem to have a better concept of how to pay the bands and bring people to see them than the smaller full time venues.

[XXGABEXX]

Sorry I called you a dumbass.

In a forum setting I think it's probably easier to just not call someone a name instead of doing so and then apologizing for doing so.

Sometimes they do it when it's a whole bunch of small, local bands to see if they draw or not, which I think is understandable.

In that instance, yea. Especially in a place like LA. That makes sense. It just sucks when you're the hungry touring band and the kids that walk out with the cash head home to their folks' place after loading up their Mesas and PRS guitars into Land Rovers. And I'm sad to say that's not an exageration.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

I've only seen this happen at bigger venues. The Commadore Ballroon in Vancouver (a House Of Blues venue) does this. We played there as an opening act and they didn't take a cut of our merch but they did take 15% of the headliners. It was part of the contract.

[leigh]

Trodden,

For all of our benefits, can you name the promoter and the venue? I see you're from Seattle, and you said this was a local show for you. It sounds like you got jerked around and that sucks... was there a signed contract?

Leigh

[junokane]

I can confirm that the "what band are you seeing" thing happens in Boston. It was always my understanding that it was a way to see which bands draw, for purposes of perhaps that band getting another booking. But it could have something to do with percentages, too, I dunno.

When the promoter "took" the merch money, somebody had to have given it to him, right? Who was this person, and why did he just give it up straight off? Curious.

[trodden]

When the promoter "took" the merch money, somebody had to have given it to him, right? Who was this person, and why did he just give it up straight off? Curious.

That i will find out tonight when we unload the band. I was a drunken mess by the end of the show and probably a good idea that i didn't know it was going on due to my intoxicated nature.

[trodden]

Trodden,

For all of our benefits, can you name the promoter and the venue? I see you're from Seattle, and you said this was a local show for you. It sounds like you got jerked around and that sucks... was there a signed contract?

Leigh

There was no signed contract.

I'd rather not name names on a web board.

[eh91311]

trodden, the worst thing about your situation is that you consider this promoter guy a "friend" and you do stage work for him. In this instance, taking a percentage of your band's merch was wrong, period. It's your call whether or not to take up the issue with him. Learn from the experience and don't repeat it. Pay to Play is wrong, no matter how it's expressed, and most promoters are slime of the lowest sort.

[lutopia]

I am totally familiar with this! And without exception, I have always thought it to be bad form. Unfortunately, it can be a brutal world out there but here are some ideas for the future:

1. Don't underestimate the power of negotiation (it has gotten me out of merch fees countless times!).

2. In situations where the "other guy" is handling your merch - make sure you count in and count out with them - pain in the rear but it's in your best interest.

3. Don't let the bastards get you down.

Out!