help me deshittify my kick sound

[seriousbusinessmusic]

OK --- here's the oldest question in the book...the problem that has plagued novices and apprentices and almost-theres since the beginning of recorded sound...so i don't expect a pat-n-dry instruction manual answer. but here goes:::: why does every kick drum i've ever recorded sound like ass? i'm looking for something grohl-icious.

let me run down my routine and then you all can tell me what i'm doing wrong.
the drum i record 95% of the time is a 22" DW outfitted w/ powerstroke3batterside head and an ambassor on the resonant side. the drums always tuned well and it sounds good in the room and i'm generally pleased with it. as far as muffling goes i usually just lay a beach towel in there touch a little on both heads. there's usually a 4-5" hole off-center in the resonant head.

micing--- i use the shure beta 52. does this mic suck? i put the grill in the hole and manuever it inches in and out til it sounds decent.

i'm recording to protools. i usually don't use EQ and compression until the mixing stage.

during mixing i'll generally take out 11or 12 dB of 200-400Hz at a 1.5Q or so to get rid of the fat. then i'll find a decent attack frequency (usually somewhere around 1.7k) and boost 3-8dB there. lastly i'll usually find sometihng down low to boost. then i'll ram the digirack compressor on there (usually the tight kick preset with a bit of a slower attack). sometimes i'll use something more beastly like the fairchild660 plugin frombombfactory.

this is just the most common procedure but i've tried everything. i just can't get the kick drum to sound right ... it's either too woofy or too clicky or just just buried beneath the bass and guitars and i can't seem to remedy this situation. what am i doing wrong?

[dokushoka]

Try somehting more like this for EQ, even before reaching for compression.

First, low cut around 30 or 40hz, sometimes I will even do more. I find with digital that is best to cut everything that you don't need. Next, I'll look for the beater, which is usually around 4-5khz. I like to do a gentle boost with a wide q. After this, I'll usually try and cut out some mud, a good starting point is around 250hz. Finally, I'll add a narrow band boost anywhere from 80hz to 100hz to give it some ooph. Hope this helps!

[swingdoc]

Try backing the mic off the kick more. I find I can get a better kick sound with the mic about two feet off the front. I use a small table that works as a hut to shield the sounds from the kit.

[tommy]

just food for thought here but often times when your kick is not coming through the mix even though it sounds pretty good soloed up, it might be other elements in your mix covering it up. Bass and heavy guitars come to mind. Or just to much boosting around the same frequencies on different tracks could be a problem. does your mix overall seem a little muddy? if so then you will have a hard time trying to get that kick to come through no matter what you do to it. try carving out space for it on other tracks. the idea is to create the space for your kick as opposed to having your kick bully it's way to the front of the herd. hope this helps.

[trashy]

it's either too woofy or too clicky or just just buried beneath the bass and guitars and i can't seem to remedy this situation.

What about subtractive eq on those sources? your kick has to have a place to sit...

[seriousbusinessmusic]

all this has definitely helped a bit in the mix i'm working on now. thanks.


regarding subtractive EQ on other elements in the mix ... how aggressive can i be without totally neutering the sound of a guitar. i've experimented with shelving off a lot of the stuff below 100Hz on electric guitars and have found that sometime it works great but other times you have to be careful with the cut or else the guitar wind up sound tinny and weak. and on the bass guitar, what can i do? can i really take bass out of the bass? sharp Q cutz where the kick is boosted is where i'd begin but a lot of times it seems like the problem is far deeper than just that

[dokushoka]

One of the first things i'll do when working in digital is to high pass everything. Get rid of what you don't need. It does amazing things =)

[moogrocker]

It does sound a little like placement might be the issue. When your putting the mic right in the hole there is a potential to get a shit load of the sound of the air being pushed out of the drum. Have someone hit the kick while you have your hand in front of the hole and you'll know what I mean. You could quite possibly be getting more whoosh then actual kick, and all the eqing in the world isn't going to fix it. Try to find a place inside of the drum that has a lot less air pressure, usually closer to the shell and away from the hole.
john

[tommy]

i've experimented with shelving off a lot of the stuff below 100Hz on electric guitars and have found that sometime it works great but other times you have to be careful with the cut or else the guitar wind up sound tinny and weak.

Exactly. Careful being the operative word here. You definately dont want to compromise one sound for another. An even balance is what you want. Your ears and subjective taste being the ruler. And yes you can cut bass from bass and still have it sound like bass. Again being careful to not completely compromise the tone of the bass all the while letting other tracks residing in neighboring frequencies to co-exist.