If you didn't have a studio and you were given $10,000 to make one, how would you spend it? This is an apocalyptic scenario for TapeOpers.
What mics, tape machine or computer, mixer, and other shit would you buy?
$10,000
Re: $10,000
considering i have just about everything i need to open my own room except a console.....
i'd buy a console with the money, but really 10k isn't enough to do much of anything with
if i had 10k for the whole room, i'd laugh and say, make it 100k and then i can maybe do it.....
i'd buy a console with the money, but really 10k isn't enough to do much of anything with
if i had 10k for the whole room, i'd laugh and say, make it 100k and then i can maybe do it.....
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eflatminor
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Re: $10,000
I'd rent a real studio with the $10k. It just isn't enough to build anything approaching a proper studio. HOWEVER, you can pick up a cassette 4 track, a few mics and get thee into a friend's basement for a hell of a lot less than $10,000 where real music can be recorded. It doesn't take a lot of money to record good music. It takes a ton of money to build a decent studio. Two very different things...
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buzzaudioguy
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Re: $10,000
oh come on guys! Granted $10,000 isn't a heck of alot of money as far as studio construction/gear goes, but I've NEVER had that much cash at once to invest in one. Really it depends on if you're planning a "professional" studio or a "project" studio. No, you can't come close to building a full blown professional facility, but you can definately build a nice project studio! If you decided to dump all this into gear and say treatment of one room in your house, I'd say you could stretch it pretty far. You couldn't have all the best and coolist pieces, but enough to record a band. A computer, software & plug-ins, an interface, a small simple but fuctional mixer, maybe one semi-nice but affordable mic pre, monitors, three of four sets of headphones, a headphone amp, 8 or so mics and all the cables and you're there. Of course, studio foam and a few rugs here and there will also help, and I'd say you'd have enough left over to do that. Extreme basics but enough to do just about anything if you plan it out right. I know I've got a shit load more gear than that, but it took me years to get to where I am now. I didn't have near 10k in my first home studio, but I still managed to get the job done. I'm spoiled to a few pieces of choice gear in my little arsenal, but we all know we could do it with less if we HAD to.
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A.David.MacKinnon
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Re: $10,000
I'd spend the whole 10k on building a good room. My partner and I converted my garage into a small but good sounding (and fairly soundproof) live room for about that much.
It's the best piece of gear we have.
It's the best piece of gear we have.
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brian beattie
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Re: $10,000
ok, I use blackface minstrel adats and a mackie right now, so let's see how this works out...
2 blackface adats, NOS,.......$600
mackie 1604, clean, used.... $500
drawmer 1960, vgc, used....$2000
1176 reissue, floor model, good deal.... $1500
ampex mx-10 tube mixer, recapped, retubed....$1000
2 sm 57's ($150), 2 at 4033's ($700), 2 oktava ml-16 fig 8 ribbons ($700)
2 oktava mc-012's or whatever they are, guitar center specials.... ($300)
and $200 for assorted oddballs (ev 635a's, ev 664's, tape machine mics.
mic total............................$2050
set of paradigm mini mk-5's....$250
hafler power amp...................$450
assorted cabling.....................$1000
ampex 440 mix deck, good deal ($500) plus $500 for recap, tune-up..................................$1000
ok, that puts you at $10,350, but you get some unquestionably world class stuff. If you can't make an amazing sounding record with this junk, all you need is practice.
brian
2 blackface adats, NOS,.......$600
mackie 1604, clean, used.... $500
drawmer 1960, vgc, used....$2000
1176 reissue, floor model, good deal.... $1500
ampex mx-10 tube mixer, recapped, retubed....$1000
2 sm 57's ($150), 2 at 4033's ($700), 2 oktava ml-16 fig 8 ribbons ($700)
2 oktava mc-012's or whatever they are, guitar center specials.... ($300)
and $200 for assorted oddballs (ev 635a's, ev 664's, tape machine mics.
mic total............................$2050
set of paradigm mini mk-5's....$250
hafler power amp...................$450
assorted cabling.....................$1000
ampex 440 mix deck, good deal ($500) plus $500 for recap, tune-up..................................$1000
ok, that puts you at $10,350, but you get some unquestionably world class stuff. If you can't make an amazing sounding record with this junk, all you need is practice.
brian
Re: $10,000
brian....you didn't build in any acoustic treatments....
IMO, all that gear is practically worthless with out a good critical listening environment
i've got racks of gear i take with me to studios......nothing to fancy....just some crazy stuff i've picked up along the way that i love....
my mixes sound so different every place i go even though i'm primarily using my speakers, my amp, and my gear.....
i could drop the 10k in acoustics alone
however......i am impressed with your list.....that's a pretty good use of 10k for gear
IMO, all that gear is practically worthless with out a good critical listening environment
i've got racks of gear i take with me to studios......nothing to fancy....just some crazy stuff i've picked up along the way that i love....
my mixes sound so different every place i go even though i'm primarily using my speakers, my amp, and my gear.....
i could drop the 10k in acoustics alone
however......i am impressed with your list.....that's a pretty good use of 10k for gear
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brian beattie
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Re: $10,000
true, true, I assumed that you would just stick the stuff where you're living and git recording. I have my stuff in my garage, and I probably spent $2000 putting up double walls and getting an air conditioner. Otherwise, I have no treatments, I just luckily have a pretty neutral monitoring environment. My wife's painting studio is next to mine in my back yard, and I track in there with a snake.
so, to clarify, I'm assuming you have some spare rooms to get started. If you include buying a space it's not possible. If you include rental costs, I don't know how they're spread out. I DON'T think you must spend tons on bass traps and auralex and consultants. ( I've never spent a penny on that stuff) just start with a room that sounds good. They're EVERYWHERE, especially in old houses with high ceilings. I'm not saying treatment doesn't help, I'm saying it's still possible to get stellar results without it, assuming the room's nice.
this is a fun excercise!
brian
so, to clarify, I'm assuming you have some spare rooms to get started. If you include buying a space it's not possible. If you include rental costs, I don't know how they're spread out. I DON'T think you must spend tons on bass traps and auralex and consultants. ( I've never spent a penny on that stuff) just start with a room that sounds good. They're EVERYWHERE, especially in old houses with high ceilings. I'm not saying treatment doesn't help, I'm saying it's still possible to get stellar results without it, assuming the room's nice.
this is a fun excercise!
brian
Re: $10,000
alright, cut out $3000 of that gear, put it in acoustics from realtraps.com, and you'll be okay. Not ideal, but good enough to make good sounding recordings once you know the sound of your room.
Best,
--JES
Best,
--JES
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NewYorkDave
- re-cappin' neve
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Re: $10,000
A 4-track, an SM57 and $9,800 worth of crack.
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Professor
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Re: $10,000
The problem with this little hypothetical is that there is also a whole bunch of extra info that is needed. Primarily we would need to know:
What kind of music you want to record? - Multi-track rock and roll is different than location classical, you know.
How many tracks will you need, 2, 8, 16, 24, 48, 192?
What kind of space you have available? - Do you need space at all, and does it need treatment.
What gear do you already own? - You might have a computer, a CD recorder, or you might not. That 10k system laid out above by Brian includes high-end preamps but no CD or DAT deck, and no computer.
Do you plan on making money with it or recording yourself?
How much experience do you have? - Could you run all of this stuff if you had it?
Or is this all a hypothetical like, what would you do if you had nothing and someone dropped 10k on you. I seem to recall that Studio Sound magazine in England used to do this as an article every month. They would assign a dollar amount and a target project and ask a well known engineer in that field to provide the shopping list. For example, a $10,000 basement project studio for a punk band, or a $500,000 full commercial studio, or a $100,000 mastering studio, or a $50,000 remote rig. It's kind of strange as a magazine article when you think about it, but sure enough they would put it at the end of every issue including a finishing balance to see if they came in under or over. Oh, naturally they were spending pounds, not dollars in case anyone wants to get picky.
But all that aside, I find the responses to this kind of interesting, particularly the adament talk of room treatments. I would say that if you are going to try to make money with your studio than the first thing you need to do is get enough gear to do a project. Spending 10k or 1k of your budget on room treatments when you don't even have a console or recorder is not efficient use of funds. I personally started with two mics, a preamp and a portable DAT and started recording small recitals - I used the computer at the college I was attending to make CDs. As I made money and saved money from the day job I bought a small mixer, a few more mics, then a multi-track, then my own CD recorder and I always mixed with my home stereo in the condo. I actually started that with a much smaller initial budget and grew it into about 10k then about 15k, and so on. I think you could do the same by picking up a mixer, a recorder, and the various basics just to get started. Leave off the room treatments until you make another thousand off of a couple gigs, then add them in. Leave off the headphone system if you aren't multi-tracking - then add it in when necessary. Leave off the fancy mic preamps until after you've cut your teeth on a couple local garage bands - let's face the teenage punk band doesn't need to sing into a vintage U-67 through an Avalon 737, that stuff can wait. But if you are just recording your own guitar and voice in your bedroom, then you get one nice mic, one nice preamp and a computer interface.
The trick is to work within your 10k limit and anticipate what happens after it's gone. I work now at a University and when the equipment budget is gone at a University, it is gone for a long time - and we won't be making a thousand bucks off of every gig. Luckily I didn't have to stay within 10k here, more like 400k but it is still a more constricted situation than an average project studio.
-Jeremy
What kind of music you want to record? - Multi-track rock and roll is different than location classical, you know.
How many tracks will you need, 2, 8, 16, 24, 48, 192?
What kind of space you have available? - Do you need space at all, and does it need treatment.
What gear do you already own? - You might have a computer, a CD recorder, or you might not. That 10k system laid out above by Brian includes high-end preamps but no CD or DAT deck, and no computer.
Do you plan on making money with it or recording yourself?
How much experience do you have? - Could you run all of this stuff if you had it?
Or is this all a hypothetical like, what would you do if you had nothing and someone dropped 10k on you. I seem to recall that Studio Sound magazine in England used to do this as an article every month. They would assign a dollar amount and a target project and ask a well known engineer in that field to provide the shopping list. For example, a $10,000 basement project studio for a punk band, or a $500,000 full commercial studio, or a $100,000 mastering studio, or a $50,000 remote rig. It's kind of strange as a magazine article when you think about it, but sure enough they would put it at the end of every issue including a finishing balance to see if they came in under or over. Oh, naturally they were spending pounds, not dollars in case anyone wants to get picky.
But all that aside, I find the responses to this kind of interesting, particularly the adament talk of room treatments. I would say that if you are going to try to make money with your studio than the first thing you need to do is get enough gear to do a project. Spending 10k or 1k of your budget on room treatments when you don't even have a console or recorder is not efficient use of funds. I personally started with two mics, a preamp and a portable DAT and started recording small recitals - I used the computer at the college I was attending to make CDs. As I made money and saved money from the day job I bought a small mixer, a few more mics, then a multi-track, then my own CD recorder and I always mixed with my home stereo in the condo. I actually started that with a much smaller initial budget and grew it into about 10k then about 15k, and so on. I think you could do the same by picking up a mixer, a recorder, and the various basics just to get started. Leave off the room treatments until you make another thousand off of a couple gigs, then add them in. Leave off the headphone system if you aren't multi-tracking - then add it in when necessary. Leave off the fancy mic preamps until after you've cut your teeth on a couple local garage bands - let's face the teenage punk band doesn't need to sing into a vintage U-67 through an Avalon 737, that stuff can wait. But if you are just recording your own guitar and voice in your bedroom, then you get one nice mic, one nice preamp and a computer interface.
The trick is to work within your 10k limit and anticipate what happens after it's gone. I work now at a University and when the equipment budget is gone at a University, it is gone for a long time - and we won't be making a thousand bucks off of every gig. Luckily I didn't have to stay within 10k here, more like 400k but it is still a more constricted situation than an average project studio.
-Jeremy
Re: $10,000
brian beattie
Excellent post.
This thread is supposed to be a challenge. Think of it as Iron Chef for TapeOpers.
Excellent post.
This thread is supposed to be a challenge. Think of it as Iron Chef for TapeOpers.
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soundguy
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Re: $10,000
duc-
are you trying to open a business or just have a cool project studio? If you just want to make cool sounds, fuck all this advice and just go get the gear you've been lusting after and make a cool sound. If you are plannign on opening a business and actually making money on your $10K investment, well, you simply need to get more money, period. $10K to build a studio is like trying to drive cross country on $38. It simply aint gonna happen. I see this all the time in the film business, people throw away hundreds of thousands of dollars because they cant get their head on right to understand that what they have aint enough to do what they want to do, but they try ayway, and create a product that is total crap that nobody ever will buy as a result of their impatience and ill advice. All because, in many cases, a guy with $200K couldnt wait around to shoot until he had $300K. Very frustrating thing to see.
The smartest, but perhaps most complicated thing you can do, is find a partner. $10K is a good chunk of money, certainly enough to get the attention of a partner or an investor. If you had maybe $30K, you can get yourself a decent console and not have to worry about buying mic pre's and eqs and all the other crap we talk about here. You can get a decent tape deck, a decent mix deck and if you are smart, some good mics an you'll still have money left to pay a repair guy when it all breaks. Or you can go computer route, which might in the end wind up costing a whole lot less.
Dont go into business thinking $10K is enough. Its not. Dont learn that the hard way.
dave
are you trying to open a business or just have a cool project studio? If you just want to make cool sounds, fuck all this advice and just go get the gear you've been lusting after and make a cool sound. If you are plannign on opening a business and actually making money on your $10K investment, well, you simply need to get more money, period. $10K to build a studio is like trying to drive cross country on $38. It simply aint gonna happen. I see this all the time in the film business, people throw away hundreds of thousands of dollars because they cant get their head on right to understand that what they have aint enough to do what they want to do, but they try ayway, and create a product that is total crap that nobody ever will buy as a result of their impatience and ill advice. All because, in many cases, a guy with $200K couldnt wait around to shoot until he had $300K. Very frustrating thing to see.
The smartest, but perhaps most complicated thing you can do, is find a partner. $10K is a good chunk of money, certainly enough to get the attention of a partner or an investor. If you had maybe $30K, you can get yourself a decent console and not have to worry about buying mic pre's and eqs and all the other crap we talk about here. You can get a decent tape deck, a decent mix deck and if you are smart, some good mics an you'll still have money left to pay a repair guy when it all breaks. Or you can go computer route, which might in the end wind up costing a whole lot less.
Dont go into business thinking $10K is enough. Its not. Dont learn that the hard way.
dave
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fear of texas
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Re: $10,000
leave it to the technerds to wreck a fun topic. is everyone consumed by what their friends tell them sounds good? "dood, you need the double-influxing high-impedance flux-capacitating multi-pattern scoobie microphone. it is 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000012 dB quieter than what you have. come back and play when you have more $$$$. and you didn't set aside $390,000 for that new mic clip that is totally on the 'hot' list in that other magazine. <sniff> boy when i play my 76 minute guitar wah solo thorugh that mic clip, it's gonna be rulin'."
i like the 4-track, sm57, and $9800 worth of crack answer better. at least it's realistic. if i ever cannot make a good recording with $10,000, someone cut off my balls, punch me in the throat, kick my dog and throw and the ABBA records.
i like the 4-track, sm57, and $9800 worth of crack answer better. at least it's realistic. if i ever cannot make a good recording with $10,000, someone cut off my balls, punch me in the throat, kick my dog and throw and the ABBA records.
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soundmaniac
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Re: $10,000
I like NYdave's idea.
I just did a rough calculation on how much I've spent on my basement project studio over the past 3 years or so...and it comes out to about $15,000. Wow! That surprised me. I thought for sure it wouldn't be over 10. My setup includes MX-70, MTR-12, Soundcraft console, a PC to mix down to, a few decent pres (Sytek, Meek) and various other necessary pieces of rack gear. About 4K of it on Mics. I saved some money by getting a lot of it used, and building my own cabling and studio furniture (mostly of the plywood and luann variety). The only "soundproofing" I did was building 3 really big gobos and they cost me about $400 in materials (wood, insulation, paint, foam). I'm gonna invest in some more acoustical treatment stuff when I move into a new space.
IMO you could put together a half-decent setup with JES's idea, 3k for the room, but if you could double your budget, say 20k or so, you'd do a lot better. You just need to be thrifty and DIY as much as you can. If you're looking for an instant, turnkey solution, 10k won't do it. It's gonna take some time. Do lots of research and find out what gear is good for the price and what gear sucks. Don't waste money on crappy gear that sounds bad and has no resale value.
My setup obviously isn't world-class or anything but most bands I record are happy with the results.
I just did a rough calculation on how much I've spent on my basement project studio over the past 3 years or so...and it comes out to about $15,000. Wow! That surprised me. I thought for sure it wouldn't be over 10. My setup includes MX-70, MTR-12, Soundcraft console, a PC to mix down to, a few decent pres (Sytek, Meek) and various other necessary pieces of rack gear. About 4K of it on Mics. I saved some money by getting a lot of it used, and building my own cabling and studio furniture (mostly of the plywood and luann variety). The only "soundproofing" I did was building 3 really big gobos and they cost me about $400 in materials (wood, insulation, paint, foam). I'm gonna invest in some more acoustical treatment stuff when I move into a new space.
IMO you could put together a half-decent setup with JES's idea, 3k for the room, but if you could double your budget, say 20k or so, you'd do a lot better. You just need to be thrifty and DIY as much as you can. If you're looking for an instant, turnkey solution, 10k won't do it. It's gonna take some time. Do lots of research and find out what gear is good for the price and what gear sucks. Don't waste money on crappy gear that sounds bad and has no resale value.
My setup obviously isn't world-class or anything but most bands I record are happy with the results.
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