Getting new clients

[twitchmonitor]

Like another post I just read, I've been recording and mixing at my PT based home studio. Clients have all been refered or been friends or friends of friends. So far, it's been great and there's a been a pretty steady flow of work. I started doing work for free but now I'm charging $20/hr and cutting people deals for a few hours here and there when needed.

Last week I got a call from a friend who engineers and he refered me to a band for mixing. they have 11 songs and are looking at 2 days of mixing. BUT they asked if they could have me mix one song for free, as a sample. This caught me off guard, but I agreed. I figure, if I was in their shoes and I'd just recorded an album and some nobody was recommended, I'd want to be sure I worked with them well and that they had the skills. I figure that until I have more of a reputation and/or some bigger credits, I aught to go the extra mile to earn my clients.

Thoughts?

[soundguy]

mix the song for free but only give them the first verse and first chorus as a "sample".

dave

[JGriffin]

I've definitely heard of this, and done it (from both ends, as the engineer and as the client) and I agree with Dave.

[twitchmonitor]

mix the song for free but only give them the first verse and first chorus as a "sample".

dave

At first glance, I assumed you were kidding...but maybe not? Since they were refered by a good friend who vouches for them, I don't think they're just trying to get a free mix out of me...I also spoke to the band leader and she came across sincere and strightforward. I would like to act in good faith and hope for the best. Worst case scenario: I wasted an evening. Best case scenario: I get the job, the band had a great experienc with me and recommends me to their friends.

Maybe other people have been burned by something like this before?

[Mix413]

Never work for free.
You've got some money invested right? Be firm with your prices, do a good job and you should always be paid for your services.

[chris harris]

you shouldn't have to give them a complete song for free, just to prove what you can do.

do what dave suggested... it's served me well.

[soundguy]

Im not kidding AT ALL. Mix the song, but dont give them enough where they have something usable. This is a very standard practice for mastering engineers to go through and I certainly wouldnt be offended if someone wanted to hear what I could do to their tracks for a verse and chorus. If you have a potential client that isnt satisfied with that, or a certain part of the song they specify, I wouldnt really consider them an all too serious client in the first place, but thats just me. Half the time they might be auditioning you as a mixer if you dont have a resume, but the other half the time they migth be just evaluating the sound of the system you'll be mixing on, which is why ME's with the most unshakable resume's are often happy to master a verse for you in light of booking a job. Its like, "see, there's no buzzes, hums, pops, I can handle your shit like this, and here's an idea of what your record will sound like" all in about 45 seconds or whatever.

You give them the whole song on the other hand, and they might not even use it but then it shows up on the box set in ten years and you dont even get a credit because you are "from the vault". If this doesnt matter to you from where you are at and really want the gig, give them the whole song, the world wont end. But I wouldnt reccomend getting in the habbit of that, I know when I put on a record that I get at the store, it doesnt take me more than a verse and chorus to decide wether or not I like the sound of the thing.

dave

[kwhatx]

I agree with showing/giving them a partial song. Protect yourself.

I think we'll be seeing more of this now that everyone and their grandmother has a "studio". So many bands/artists will bring CD's of poorly done previous projects with them to show me. To the band, they feel like these previous "attempts" were a big waste of time and money that they don't want to repeat. And I fully understand.

It sounds like the band in question has probably had a bad experience before with another "studio" and doesn't want to waste any more money.

[joel hamilton]

why not just play them other stuff you have done?

Make them a CD of some stuff you are proud of.

[chemicalpink]

dave is right as usual, or maybe mix the first song for half price
and everybody is happy

[cgarges]

Someone was asking me recently about not giving out rough mixes. Here's something I often do that you might want to apply (or do two versions of the mix--one "right" one and one like I'm about to tell you about).

Spend time getting the mix to sound good, but put one blatently obvious blunder in it. A vocal part that comes in WAY too loud or a lyric muted at the top of a phrase. Maybe just bump the kick drum way up for a couple of measures. Something that's really intentional and no one could miss, but might also insure that they don't end up releasing it or giving it to a radio station for airplay. I guess giving bits and pices of the song is the same thing. This is just another option.

Here's another idea. How about they pay you half your normal rate to take the time to mix it? If they like it, they'll pay you the balance (the rest of your full rate). If not, they haven't totally lost and neither have you. Both sides take a gamble. In any case, get that in writing.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[twitchmonitor]

Great ideas! hell yeah. Unfortunately, I agreed to mix this song for the band already so I don't want to suddenly change the deal we both agreed to....I think that would be unprofessional of me.

BUT I do think that I know what I'll do next time: Put together a cd of songs I recorded and/or mixed to give to prospective clients AND, if they ask, offer to mix a verse and chorus for free as a sample. ( or possibly half price for a whole song with the other half to be paid if they have me do the whole album...not sure)

I sometimes find it difficult to be a hard ass about these things...I guess I worry that I'll lose business if I'm not totallly agreeable but i understand that the right clients will want to work with me because they find me easy to work with and they like what I do. And of course, they'll probably respect me more if I treat it seriously, eg., charging for every hour, not working for free, etc.

thanks for everybody's input (esp dave, joel and chris!)

[joel hamilton]

I will intentionally mute vocals if I have a really good rough mix going.
Dastardly, yes.

Like mute the entrance to the second verse for a second or two. Or move it around, or use a scratchy pan pot....

Something not so secret, like chris said. IMO, this is normal.

[twitchmonitor]

I will intentionally mute vocals if I have a really good rough mix going.
Dastardly, yes.

Like mute the entrance to the second verse for a second or two. Or move it around, or use a scratchy pan pot....

Something not so secret, like chris said. IMO, this is normal.

Do the clients look at you like you just killed their kid when you use that scratchy pot or what? Do you say something like: Understand that I don't want to do this but I have to....*screeeech*? Or do you just not say anything about it?

[coniferouspine]

I will intentionally mute vocals if I have a really good rough mix going.
Dastardly, yes.

Like mute the entrance to the second verse for a second or two. Or move it around, or use a scratchy pan pot....

You know what, hearing you guys talk about this, I have just now come to suspect that on at least one occasion a few years ago, I have had this done to me by an engineer on a rough mix of a band I was in, and we didn't even know it. The not so funny thing (for him at least) is that after a couple of weeks of listening to the two rough mixes with occasional botched fader moves he did, we just assumed that maybe the guy didn't really know what he was doing after all, or wasn't paying enough attention, and so we ended up taking our project elsewhere to mix. Who knew? We thought the dude was incompetent, and actually what he was really doing was displaying deliberately-sabotaged flashes of his engineering brilliance so we'd want to spend more money with him! Go figure.