phase reverse / esrever esahp

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jimbo
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phase reverse / esrever esahp

Post by jimbo » Sat Mar 13, 2004 5:14 pm

hey all -
so, for years i've been mostly working digital and when it comes time to fix the phase on certain things (like a bass di + mic setup, or one or two drum micsout of phase with the overheads, etc.) it's always been a cinch to hit the "phase reverse" button on the eq plugin. but i've been moving to some analog stuff (i got a tascam 388 recently) and i was wondering if there are any such devices i could use to help me in these situations.

i have a couple of those little ART pre's, and they have phase switches on em, but i'd rather not have to send the signal thru it (and likely kill some of it - or at least color it differently) just to reverse the phase. there's gotta be some kinda box out there (cheap i hope) that i could use thru the inserts on the channels i need to fix.

and yes, i know the obvious answer is to have the phase fixed in the first place (during the recording)....i'm looking into those XLR adaptors (male-female) that reverse the phase in the wiring, but in the meantime, i need something to fix the tracks i've already recorded.

thanks y'all-
jimbo

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psychicoctopus
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Re: phase reverse / esrever esahp

Post by psychicoctopus » Sat Mar 13, 2004 6:40 pm

you could wire an XLR cable to do it. Just switch the connections to pins 2 and 3 on one end.

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wayne kerr
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Re: phase reverse / esrever esahp

Post by wayne kerr » Sat Mar 13, 2004 6:53 pm

Plus remember that the polarity switch (or polarity-reversed cable) only do just that - reverse POLARITY which is an electrical property. If two or more sources arrive at the transducer at different times, they are STILL out of PHASE! I rarely use the polarity switch - usually only on SD if I'm using a snare-side mic. And even then, it takes careful mic placement to get the two signals "in phase." IE: you need to get them 180deg OUT of phase first, and then reverse the polarity!

CC
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todd aschoff
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Re: phase reverse / esrever esahp

Post by todd aschoff » Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:18 pm

Hello, my mic pre's have phase reversal buttons - do I want to use them so that a stereo pair is OUT of phase - ? like recording 2 fiddles , or stereo drums?
Thanks for the help.
Todd

KennyLusk
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Re: phase reverse / esrever esahp

Post by KennyLusk » Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:25 pm

Jimbo if you've tracked to tape the answer is no. There's no way to fix your phasing issues once you've committed to tape.

And using the phase reverse button on your mic pre (when you're tracking) is totally a last resort.

It is, however, interesting to use when you're tracking in mono and find that your mic takes on a different color when the phase is reversed. Or maybe that your crappy chinese mic sounds better with the polarity flipped. i discovered that on one of my MXL mic's. Kinda funny, actually.

Like the others have said, ya gotta get it right from the start dude.

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Re: phase reverse / esrever esahp

Post by Electricide » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:01 pm

I'm surprised and disappointed that a manufacturer actually labels it a phase reverse button. As was said, just saying the word 'phase' implies a time difference between two things. Flipping the polarity (which is what these switches do) inverts the wave form of a single source, so to speak, but doesn't change its placement in time, nor it's relationship to other waveforms, timewise.

Sometimes, switching polarity will get you better results than leaving it, but you're still dealing with some amount of comb filtering.

midiot
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Re: phase reverse / esrever esahp

Post by midiot » Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:30 am

todd aschoff wrote:Hello, my mic pre's have phase reversal buttons - do I want to use them so that a stereo pair is OUT of phase - ? like recording 2 fiddles , or stereo drums?
Thanks for the help.
Do what sounds right to you. Listen to the stereo tracks within the mix and hit one of the phase buttons from the stereo track in question. Does the recorded instrument all of a sudden jump out in the mix or does it kinda get lost?
boom-ptch-boom

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I'm Painting Again
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Re: phase reverse / esrever esahp

Post by I'm Painting Again » Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:43 am

Get it right at the source..there is no better advice in making records..

Here are some products that might poke your interest..little labs IPB and IPBjr.
http://www.mercenary.com/litlabibpanp.html
http://www.mercenary.com/lilaibpjr.html

goldenechos
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Re: phase reverse / esrever esahp

Post by goldenechos » Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:43 am

chocolatechickenpunkpie wrote:Plus remember that the polarity switch (or polarity-reversed cable) only do just that - reverse POLARITY which is an electrical property. If two or more sources arrive at the transducer at different times, they are STILL out of PHASE! I rarely use the polarity switch - usually only on SD if I'm using a snare-side mic. And even then, it takes careful mic placement to get the two signals "in phase." IE: you need to get them 180deg OUT of phase first, and then reverse the polarity!

CC
PP
I have not used the Little Labs box, but I am pretty sure they attempt to remedy phasing problems by allowing the user variable phase from 0-180.

Can anybody confirm how well that feature works? Seems like everybody loves that box.

Any body know of a plugin that does what that box does?

tony echos

todd aschoff
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Re: phase reverse / esrever esahp

Post by todd aschoff » Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:43 am

I have used the phase reverse swithces on my Digitech VTP-1, but only for experimental purposes. I am trying to figure out when to use the switches on recordings - do i purposely switch the phase on stereo overheads, or use a phase reversal to send something way back in the mix?
Todd

goldenechos
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Re: phase reverse / esrever esahp

Post by goldenechos » Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:40 pm

todd aschoff wrote:I have used the phase reverse swithces on my Digitech VTP-1, but only for experimental purposes. I am trying to figure out when to use the switches on recordings - do i purposely switch the phase on stereo overheads, or use a phase reversal to send something way back in the mix?
In my experience, it is very rare that two mics I am using are perfectly out of phase so as to allow correction by flipping the phase switch on one of them...
HOWEVER, sometimes, flipping the phase switch in addition to re-positioning one of the two mics, can either fix the problem, or sound cool (in an out-of-phase kinda way, which is usually a "hollow" tone).

Experiment. You cannot break anything by going out of phase!

tony

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