A philosophical question on compression

[altoidboy]

A philosophical question on compression...

Theoretically all a compressor is supposed to do is play with volume. It's supposed to have a threshold point where the audio, when it passes beyond that point, is altered in dynamics resulting in a smoother, more limited dynamic range.

Where did the "warmth" factor come into play in a device that is supposed to play with volume, not EQ? Why do famous character compressors "warm" the sound as well as alter their dynamics? To my ears, though the extra warmth is nice, a lot of times it ends up sounding a lot more artificial, and sometimes I get slick of that glossy warm perfect vocal sound that a lot of commercial records get released with. I wonder if it's a phase that music is going through...like Simmons drums in the 80's, like Autotune in the 90's, and whether a decade from now we'll peg songs recorded in the 00's for that too-glossy abnormally warm sheen around the vocals...and maybe we'll get back to a raw-er more natural vocal.

Can you find a compressor that solely tames dynamics without affecting warmth (EQ)?

Any thoughts welcomed.

[j.hall]

Can you find a compressor that solely tames dynamics without affecting warmth (EQ)?

YES....not all comps "warm" things up

a better question is:
can you find a comp that has no color at all?

the answer is no

think about it.....you are passing audio through more electronics
think of how many different designs and components and transformers (or not) are our there

every circuit, every capacitor, every transformer will color the audio in it's own distinct way.....

even an EQ will color the audio for all of these same reasons

every thing you put the audio through

power amps, speakers, the room, etc......

if all gear were "colorless" there wouldn't be more then one manufacturer!!

if you think of recording as a scientific experiment......every time you record you have no true control....every single thing involved is a variable
and that includes YOU!

[citizenkeith]

How about plug-ins? One would think that this could be done in the digital realm.

[j.hall]

you'd think

but those guys have so much pressure to make a plug in that sounds like something

think about it.....if i just want a colorless gain riding device, i'll automate the fader up and down

why use a comp if you don't want any color added

i can't remember the last time i've used a comp with any less then 6 db of gain reduction

it's all about sonic shaping.......you can't get a huge low end (ala tchad blake) with out compression....and a lot of it

if a comp was colorless, i'd throw it in the trash!!!

[jislober]

In terms of plug-ins, i would guess that plugins that model specific classic compressors are supposed to impart some sort of color that's characteristic of whatever the gear. The problem supposedly is that like all analog equipment -- every 1176, for instance -- will sound different from each other. Plus the particular way a piece of equipment ages will give it a distinct sonic character. Also, plugins that model analog gear won't sound better is they're pushed hard. I think that's what David Derr was taking about in the Tape-op interview; when you try to use compression "radically" (which I assume means apply a lot of it), plugins just don't really work.

Apparently though there's been this argument on DUC about whether sony oxford plugs are better than the Mcdsp, with the MCdsp people claiming that the Dony plugins are too sterile and don't have "color" that MCdsp has. Weird.

[citizenkeith]

think about it.....if i just want a colorless gain riding device, i'll automate the fader up and down

That makes sense... I suppose a "colorless" compressor plug-in would just save time. As it is, I do a lot of volume adjustments on the DAW anyway.

[j.hall]

i use to do a lot of volume adjusting when i worked on PT as well

i noticed something when i went back to tape......less surgery!!

i also enjoyed working with better players how can play to, and for, the song

that really helps the dynamic adjustments as well

i always tried to find a happy ground in the DAW where i didn't have to ride the faders so much.....maybe it's something about the DAW world that's just to transient

[marqueemoon]

like Autotune in the 90's

Listened to the radio lately?

I really think it's the amount of "smooth" compression along with the DAW editing of every creak and breath that would have normally been brought out by the compression that bugs me.

[brian beattie]

this is an interesting question. First of all, It seems the RNC is the most likely contender for inexpensive and transparent compression. I've never used one, but it's been described that way real often.
2nd of all, I wouldn't judge "compression" based on the sound of modern hit radio vocal sounds. Name any vocal sound you like from any era, and there's a 99% chance that compression was used. You might just be objecting to the sound of compressor plug-ins, or the overly edited, overly tailored sound of pt obsession, as marqueemoon suggested. Compression use, from caveman times on, has always been a matter of degree. Your eardrums compress loud sounds naturally. Electronic compression emulates this natural phenomenon. Compressing the loudest element of your mix can give a little more impression of the "front to backness" of the sound. A loud rock band at a club, playing, whatever, at 115 decibels is causing a HUGE amount of "stereo buss compression" in your head. (if your ears still are functioning) That same loud rock band, in a successful recording, PROBABLY has carefully used compression to give you some of the impression of oppressiveness of the force of sound, so you don't have to turn your stereo up to 115 decibels to bliss out on the experience. If you consider a vocal to be an ingredient (ONIONS!!!) in a recorded song, you can use compression as a method of preparing that ingredient so that it serves it's function in the dish.(FRY THOSE ONIONS!!)
AND, vocals that are compressed all the way into oblivion are a completely different beast than vocals that have been carefully compressed, with great care paid to the vocalists's dynamics and how they relate to the song. I would guess that most folks who "hate" compression actually hate "overcompression", because compression gently and carefully used can make a HUGE difference, ESPECIALLY when a "warm" compressor is used. I've alway believed that the standard of vocal compression was based on a desire to conjure the sound of the resonance of one's own voice in one's own heAd, you know, the illusion that is shattered the first time anyone hears their own voice on tape.. (hey, I don't sound like THAT!!)
I didn't use ANY compression on ANYTHING for YEARS and YEARS. When I got a hold of some nice compressors, and started to see how even a tiny amount of compression changes a sonic element's signature completely, without any of the life getting sucked out of it. I've always thought succesful compressor use is a constant juggling act. gentle changes in attack and release times and degree of compression, and the degree to which the compressor is gained up or down all change the flavor in delectable ways. I TOTALLY agree with j.hall, that the color and warmth is exactly what I want out of a compressor, but I plug in my 1176 to a guitar sometimes, and adjust it till the meter's not even MOVING, and THAT can do the trick. compression can be a lovely, subtle thing.
brian

[j.hall]

I TOTALLY agree with j.hall, that the color and warmth is exactly what I want out of a compressor, but I plug in my 1176 to a guitar sometimes, and adjust it till the meter's not even MOVING, and THAT can do the trick. compression can be a lovely, subtle thing.
brian

man.....i've tried to go easy so many times

you are probably the 15th person to tell me about patching through an 1176 but not really getting any gain reduction

i keep trying....i just can't help myself.....i have to twist the knob and hear the thing pump

the flip side to all that is, i've stopped inserting compression on a track
it's all multing and blending

so over the top comp sounds are really great and usefull

[jajjguy]

You know, i think the compressor plugs in DP are pretty darn transparent, sometimes maddeningly so. I've got an RNC too, and it's pretty transparent too, but it has way more character than the plugs (and it's useable at more extreme settings, unlike the plugs). But even those plain vanilla plugs sure do change the tone and make things warmer, and more upclose and present. I think that's an effect of the basic volume-manipulation function of compression.

Picture a drum hit. You've got this quick slap, followed very quickly by a deeper thud, followed by a slower ringing decay. The loudest part is the quick slap, and without compression the rest of the sound can get buried in the mix. Once you compress it, the thud and the ringing are brought up closer to the level of the slap, so you can hear them. We do this so we can hear the drums better in the mix, but also because it changes the tone of the drums, making them "warmer" by changing the balance between the quick slap and the thud and ring. (And probably the quick slap is more HF and the rest of the tone is more LF.)

Ditto with vocals. You bring the body of the voice tone up closer to the level of the quick, sharp consonants. This changes the balance of the sounds, and colors the tone.

So even if all the compressor is doing is really quick volume edits, that's going to change the way we perceive the tone.

[dwelle]

....or doing nothing at all, almost.

been tracking guitars on a current project lately, mic>preamp>tape. get stuck between two detents on the gain pot. ones too hot, the other not hot enough. put a distressor in the chain at 1:1 (thanks soundguy) to better control my gain, and look out! new sound, and very subtle difference. just a little bit of color and a more control. some knob twiddlin', and the guitars have a little more presence, smoother. sounds better for what i was doing.

just putting the signal thru the electronics is gonna change the sound to a degree. more varibles to play with. fun!

[soundguy]

I think the philosophical question you really want to ask is why or how do people use compressors, not why do they add a warmth. Saying that is sorta like saying why does food taste good when you cook it? Thats a ridiculous question to ask if you've eaten my cooking... It dont taste good, I cant cook. Same breath, not everyone can use a compressor to their advantage and certainly not every compressor sounds good.

The primary element in a compressor is an amplifier. People wet their pants about mic pre's but sooner or later it will become a chic and written about idea in the mags that ALL your amplifiers are important, not just the boutique mic pre that you plug your mic into. In the case of the 1176, depending on what version you have, there is an 1108 or an 1109 amplifier on the tail end. The 1108 got reissued as the 2108 mic pre. This is why people run their signal through an 1176, just to get the color of the line amp, which is TREMENDOUS color. I'll use an 1176 aggressively, but the last record I did, every guitar was tracked through that 1176 at 4:1 with the needle barely twitching at peaks. Barely twitching...

Look at something like an LA2. Is it warm? well, it better be, there is a giant tube amplifier built around the compression circuit. Better be warm...

Not all compressors are "warm". I have an api 2500 and for as much as I love it on drums, its very difficult to use on overheads where there is lots of cymbal bashing, the compressor adds a very significant amount of high end the more you compress into it. Likewise with some 1176's, they can be VERY sibilant on vocals if you are not careful with your essssssses.

One thing I have noticed is that with almost any compressor, the more you compress, the more of this low end kind of wierdness you get. With cheap compressors its a terrible thing to deal with, low end flabbiness, but even on the best boxes out there, you get this wierd thing. Ive noticed it worst when you use cardioids close up on something, its almost as if the compressor is pronouncing the proximity of the mic before and above all else in the signal. Its a very wierd thing to get used to and work around. Sorta like, if you know you are gonna compress alot, you want to avoid as much proximity as possible. Anyhow, its that low end thing I think that causes a lot of people to talk about the warmth of their limiters. The limiter makes everthing louder, so a track with a lot of proximity, that tends to turn into mud pretty quick with lots of aggressive compression, especially with long releases.

dave

[joeysimms]

it's all multing and blending

So, you generally will run tracks that you want processed together to a buss and comp that? Then, blend in with the originals?

[cassembler]

Compression is like that chick you hook up with in a drunken stupor at the local bar. The next morning, she may be fine or not, but ether way, something got compressed.

Probably the best analogy ever.