How do you deal with ignorance (including your own)?

general questions, comments and ideas about recording, audio, music, etc.
joel hamilton
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Re: How do you deal with ignorance (including your own)?

Post by joel hamilton » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:20 pm

The steak metaphor is valid, because the same steak (tracks/performances/players) are debating the preparation and the serving.

I dont think anyone would stop and decide it would be a rock record, which would be way more salami.. ;)

I still stick by my previous post.

You have to be the most positive, open, listening-est, patuent person in the room when recording a group of people with differing tastes, personalities, and working methods. Even if you hate everything they listen to, the way they work, their impatience..etc.

The bottom line is that this young man needs to make a good reord with these guys, and being negative about any part of this process will not put you an INCH toward that goal.

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Re: How do you deal with ignorance (including your own)?

Post by pauly » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:31 pm

Well, here is what to do..and I am REALLY surprised no one has said this........it is a bluegrass band right? Have them set up the way they do live and put up 3 or 4 mics with one being the "main" mic. Let them deal the licks and you have an easy mix!:) OR I could be totally wrong, but I don't think so:)


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Re: How do you deal with ignorance (including your own)?

Post by cgarges » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:50 pm

joeysimms wrote:I don't like that, because, again, it assumes the client just doesn't know what's good for them. Maybe this case is a guy who's expecting steak, and you keep saying "what's wrong with salami"?
I don't think that's at all what he's saying at this point. I think he's saying that people have different tastes and it's his job to cater to those tastes, whether he thinks it's a good idea or not. I agree with that and I think it's a nice metaphor.

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Re: How do you deal with ignorance (including your own)?

Post by chris harris » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:57 pm

cgarges wrote:
joeysimms wrote:I don't like that, because, again, it assumes the client just doesn't know what's good for them. Maybe this case is a guy who's expecting steak, and you keep saying "what's wrong with salami"?
I don't think that's at all what he's saying at this point. I think he's saying that people have different tastes and it's his job to cater to those tastes, whether he thinks it's a good idea or not. I agree with that and I think it's a nice metaphor.

Chris
I think that's what he's saying too... and, I'm glad that he seems to have come around to that conclusion during this thread.

Havin one unhappy client does much more damage for your future, than having several happy clients does good.

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Re: How do you deal with ignorance (including your own)?

Post by saultime » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:28 pm

What I have learned from this thread is, even if you think your client is a moron, if he isn?t happy with the sound, by all means, listen to him. He may not possess the proper recording jargon to explain what he wants in an immediately useful way, but work with him. Besides, it?s better than hearing him say he wants it ?warm and punchy.? :P

The particular banjo player in question, his instrument is a vintage Gibson Mastertone. A large chunk of his net worth is tied up in that thing, and he?s entitled to have it sound a certain way when we record.

And to repeat myself, I brought up the issue of CD players to point out that many people <gasp> don?t listen to recorded music. Some don't even listen to live music as an audience member very often?if they?re listening, it?s because they?re playing, either onstage, in a jam session, or backstage after the show. The idea of music contained in a storage medium like analog tape or a compact disc is foreign to them. It?s like the Amish not wanting their picture taken. They?re a little funny about it. :wink:

I have much to learn, but there might come a time during mixdown where they should strongly consider my recommendations. Like most smalltime musicians, they?re planning to sell this CD at shows to entice people to come back for more. I know for a fact most bluegrass listeners will not take kindly to a CD where the banjo (or the mandolin, or whatever) is mixed up front for the duration of the entire album. The most frequent criticism I hear of this kind of music is that ?it all sounds the same.? I?m not saying they should try and make their album sound just like the Latest Del McCoury or Allison Kraus release, either?but it?s a good place to start the though process, no? I?ll try my best to be a diplomat and a teacher. But if they want it well done, I?ll give them what they want. 8)

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Re: How do you deal with ignorance (including your own)?

Post by Rigsby » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:51 am

Might be an idea to get everyone together and have a chat about what they hear when they're playing and how that sounds and what you are capable of capturing. If it's a collaboration it's worth collaborating on the whole thing, encourage everybody to talk and listen, and don't fill silences, someone's probably thinking. Sure, worry about the things they might not know about, but let them know your concerns and any limitations etc. Let the fiddle player tell the banjo player that his instrument's too loud, he'll probably take it better from a peer. If the banjo sounds too synthesised it's probably just too clear and 'tidy', ambient micing will probably help with this as it'll be a less direct sound, more akin to how the banjo sounds in his hands. He's not used to hearing it from the strings, but from headheight. Most of all, listen and talk, talk and listen. It sounds to me that a good finished product would be a clean recording (your job) of how the group hears themselves (theirs). Good luck, and keep conversing, it's where it's at. :D
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