First Black Metal session.

[trodden]

Alrighty Children of all things EVIL...

I've got a band this weekend that's playing your standard Norwegian black metal, ala Emperor, Satyricon, etc. I've done different types of metal and hardcore, but never have done anything like this. Upon listening to my roommates extravagant black metal collection, recordings range from absolutley HORRID, to amazing orchestrations. The instrumentation on this group is Drums (drummer is great!), Keyboards, guitar, baritone guitar, bass. Guitar is a les paul studio going through Marshall 800 with metal zone for the crunch. Baritone is actually a BC Rich Warlock converted to baritone going through an older Sunn Model T with metal zone as well along with some delay and chorus pedals. Keys are your standard piano, organ, and string sounds, stereo. Bass, heavily distorted through an ampeg head and 4 12"ported by 2 10" Gallien Kruger cab.

Obviously, the kick needs to be extremely clicky, the drummer has one of those click do hickeys on his batter head, due to that, i'm thinking RE-20 for the kick instead of d112 which is already clicky. The guitars need to be ridiculously thin and annoying..... well i'd prefer the not be, but it seams that most of the recordings i listened to, the guitar playing was amazing, but the tone was hella crap. I usually do a 57 and 421 on guitars. with two mics on each guitar, it will be hella thick already so the only over dubs we'll probably be doing will be acoustic and some leads.

Any suggestions would be great. What i'm more interested in is stereo placement in the mix with two guitars (two tracks each) and then a stereo keyboard track.. pan placement will affect the mix alot.

All is being recorded straight to digi 001 along with alesis AI3 for a total of 16 tracks.

In servance to the Goat,
trodden

[skinnyemo77]

Find an icy cave and find a way to record in the cave.

That would be true scandanavian death metal.

Or mic and record a pig being sacrificed on a pentogram altar.

[djgout]

my only suggestion is to show up wearing corpse paint. they'll respect you so much more and definitly do more sessions with you.....

most of that style stuff has this sounding guitars that are spread kinda wide to give it some more of a *star treky* hugeness. (last dimmu record....totally star trek)

that style is fun for about 20 minutes, beyond that good luck to you. hopefully they won't be the kinds of clients that take their style so seriously that they want you to like cut yourself and bleed on the 001 for that *sound*

[trodden]

Excellent,
well my rehearsal space/ project studio is much like a cave, its an old boiler room from a building over 100 years old. cavernous 20 ft ceilings, all concrete, very dark with red and blue light bulbs for lighting, plus it smell really musty and like spilled beer and cigarettes.

As for the pig, well i'm vegan, and two of the other band mates are vegan/ vegetarian... so we'll sacrifice some tofu or tofurkey.

so i figure we'd just do alot of speed, especially during mixdown and wear alot of chain mail.... i do have access to a few battle axes and a couple of swords as well... that will get us that sound i'm sure.

i do need to get some more candles as well.

[trodden]

my only suggestion is to show up wearing corpse paint. they'll respect you so much more and definitly do more sessions with you.....

most of that style stuff has this sounding guitars that are spread kinda wide to give it some more of a *star treky* hugeness. (last dimmu record....totally star trek)

that style is fun for about 20 minutes, beyond that good luck to you. hopefully they won't be the kinds of clients that take their style so seriously that they want you to like cut yourself and bleed on the 001 for that *sound*

ahahha yes, the corpse paint is so silly.

and yes the last "Double Burger" record, very star trek, great description there.

yes it will be a long day. 4 songs, each song is at least 10 minutes long.
They are good kids though, good friends so it will be a hoot, the only thing with 10 minute songs, people get really "punch in" happy.

[Brian Brock]

Given what I've heard of that kind of music, where the singer sounds like he's in Revenge of the Nerds competing in a burping contest, I would recommend that you not base your recording on what you've heard. Does the band explicitly want to sound like what you describe?

The thing I always laff about on those recordings, other than the burp-singing, is how the snare drum sounds like this little popping bubblegum sound, really separate from the drums as a whole, and usually being played as part of an intricate pattern on the kit as a whole.

[trodden]

The thing I always laff about on those recordings, other than the burp-singing, is how the snare drum sounds like this little popping bubblegum sound, really separate from the drums as a whole, and usually being played as part of an intricate pattern on the kit as a whole.

Yes the snare is going to be an issue. Dude has a great sounding wooden snare. i mean fuckin' CRACK!!!!. He cand "grind" quite well, his strength in his double kick, but the snare just kinda drops down to a little tapitty tapitty tapitty deal..during the really fast grinding parts. so yeah, break out the compressors. Looks like i'll be compressing to hard disk, which is ok, just take more time since my place is a controlroomless place. in the room with the drums with the amps out in the hall.

[ryan_c]

Suggestions:
1. An icy cave to record in would be nice. Barring that, a forest would probably do.
2. Corpse paint and a bullet belt are musts. Spike gauntlets are also great, and if you don't have any mideval weaponry you may want to invest in some.
3. Make sure you know what side of the Grishnakh debate you fall on in case it comes up.

Beyond all that, I think that instead of conforming to ass-sounding black metal conventions, you should try to convince them that they should have a good sounding record. Just because other black metal records have terrible sounding guitars, non-existant bass and a kick drum that sounds like you're banging on a coffee can doesn't mean that they all need to sound that way. Obviously this isn't your call, but I think that you should mention it. I think that lots of black metal records could be way more intense if they weren't so thin-sounding.

[trodden]

Suggestions:
1. An icy cave to record in would be nice. Barring that, a forest would probably do.
2. Corpse paint and a bullet belt are musts. Spike gauntlets are also great, and if you don't have any mideval weaponry you may want to invest in some.
3. Make sure you know what side of the Grishnakh debate you fall on in case it comes up.

Beyond all that, I think that instead of conforming to ass-sounding black metal conventions, you should try to convince them that they should have a good sounding record. Just because other black metal records have terrible sounding guitars, non-existant bass and a kick drum that sounds like you're banging on a coffee can doesn't mean that they all need to sound that way. Obviously this isn't your call, but I think that you should mention it. I think that lots of black metal records could be way more intense if they weren't so thin-sounding.

Ryan

as for 1. see above.
as for 2., see above, battle axes and swords will be provided.
as for 3., uhhhh i'm guessing this may be something to do with the whole fucked up side of some black metal.. .i.e. lords of chaos, anti-semitism, homophobia, killing off other band member for scene cred (what a great way to promote the band!!!)

but yes, these guys are pretty cool. but pretty schooled. so we'll see on how open they are. I'm doing this for hella cheap and i'm a friend so we might have the time and the ok to make this a great 4 song demo, that possibly will have two songs released on a split lp.

[kdarr]

Interesting. I think part of the reason that Black Metal sounds are so thin is that everything is playing 16-32nd notes the whole time. The drums take up so much space because of the constant blastbeats that there's not a whole lot of frequency space left. Most black metal recordings are like all tiny drums and mush in the background, with maybe some sloppy verb going on. Listen to Nasum's (grindcore, not black metal, but a good drum balance & sound for the style) "Helvete" album for some better recorded blastbeat stuff.

It's interesting that this band uses both standard AND baritone guitar. Neat idea. Basically, you're gonna have to stack this mix like a (black) wedding cake. The individual frequency bands that the instruments occupy are going to have to be pretty narrow, in order to fit everything in at once. I would say keep the guitars and drums relatively dry during the fast parts, to prevent washiness, and verb them up when they slow down to get a nice thick heaviness.

This might be obvious already, but I think maybe this approach might work - bottom to top. Keep in mind this is all speculative, and I'm neither a pro nor have I recorded a black metal band, but I hear things that I think would improve the kinds of recordings vastly.

kick drum "meat" - many black metal recordings don't have much of this, it might be nice to hear one that actually does. Of course you're gonna need lots of beater click higher up. Maybe don't super-compress the kicks, some actual punch in a black metal record would be kinda cool. I tend to think that's what they're missing most of the time.

bass - the bass sound is gonna have to be pretty narrow and compressed to work with the bari guitar. I would say keep it primarily in the low midrange, not a whole lotta deep bottom or mid-honk, and just enough attack to articulate the picking. Lots of black metal bassists use tons of distortion, try and talk the guy into doing something a little cleaner. Otherwise it'll just be fizz and mush, and mixing will be a headache.

bari guitar - pick a side, and hard-pan that guy. Maybe put it on the side with the hi-hat to balance the high-freq over there. If you're double-tracking, a slight spread might be cool (one track 100% panned, the other maybe 80% to the same side), but I would suggest mainly keeping the tracks leaning on one side or the other. That'll make the bari/guitar interplay more obvious too. You're gonna have to keep the bandwidth narrow to squeeze the bari in between the guitar and the bass. The further you pan the guitars, the more frequency space you'll get with each track.

guitar - same as the the bari, just hard-pan it the the opposite side. Remember that you can use thicker sounds when they're not playing super fast (assuming they actually slow down at all ), but when the drums are blasting and they're tremolo picking, the sounds are gonna have to be really squeezed. I would say compress all the guitar tracks pretty heavily. In Black Metal, all the drive is coming from the drums, the guitars are almost like a pad as they harmonize with each other and play melodic lines. As I said before, the further you spread the two guitars apart, the more bandwidth you're gonna get with each tone.

toms - the toms are probably only going to come in during Lombardo-esque speed fills, so they don't really have to be that big.

snare - Because of the blastbeats, you're gonna get a lot of constant 16th and 8th note snare work. Just keep it pretty dry and slightly dead-sounding during the fast stuff. Too much ping is gonna sound horrible, too much verb will eat the entire mix up. A good short "wap" is ideal. As I said before, if they slow down at all, that's when you can go for a big rock/metal snare sound. If they're dynamic with their tempos, automation and/or fader rides on the verb returns are gonna be your friend.

keyboards - stereo for sure, but how wide to pan really depends on the other sounds. You're going to have to basically put a high-pass on the keys to prevent them from interfering with the guitars and drums. If the keyboardist is using big two-handed parts, see if you can seperate the low and high parts out to separate tracks (record each hand one at a time if you have to). Maybe try panning the higher parts over to the bari-guitar side to fit on top of them and the lower keyboards over to the standard guitar parts to kind of squeeze between them and the bass. String sounds can be pretty thin and still cut, organs are fuller-range and will be harder to mix. Getting a natural-sounding piano is probably out of the question (unless there are parts where it's unacompanied by the band), so just keep them bright and cutting. Keys will probably be pretty verbed out and kind of floating off in the background while the guitars and drums are really in-your-face.

vocals - your mic choice is going to depend on the singer's delivery. Most black metal is that real high shrieky Dani Filth kind of stuff, but sometimes they favor more of a death-metal cookie-monster thing. And maybe, just maybe, there might be some actual singing, but probably not. If they switch between the shrieks and the growls, maybe use different mics for each, if you can. Vocals tend to be a little bit buried (no pun intended) in this kind of music, so chances are the band won't mind if they're not super up-front.

cymbals - I know shit about recording/mixing cymbals. You're on your own, heh.

Anyway, like I said, I'm no expert, this is just what I think might help. Let me know how it goes, and may Satan give you good luck!

*horns*

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[trodden]

Kdarr!

thank you, just exactly the right suggestions i was looking for. THANKS buddy, hail satan to you my dark lord.

yeah, the lack of bass in these recordings annoy me, i'm definately going to take a DI before dude's distortion. cause yep, bass and baritone are going to be fightin' for space in the mix.

I agree, a kick drum with more oomph would really really help out on these recordings.

as for the guitar interplay, yep, very very pad like. And yes the band does slow down at times and the chance to vary the verb and textures at those points will be a stong seller.

the drummer is good, and has a good "drive" to the band, so making the drums a focus will not be a problem, and then layer around..

i like the wedding cake analogy. fuck yeah. i mean funeral cake.

your suggestions have made me even more excited about this diabolical event.

[Ajpulzetti]

I think that lots of black metal records could be way more intense if they weren't so thin-sounding.

True true true. I can never find any metal that sounds like it is being played by actual people in an actual room. Maybe the typical "metal" sound is a representations of what cackling demons sound like trying to play instruments in a fiery pit of doom and destruction.

Seriously though, why can't records sound human? there is something immediately captivating about a recording that has all the nuances of some sort of real room with some sort of real person playing some sort of real instrument in it. I find it strange when people explain a certain reverbs and give them identifiable traits like "cave" or "hall". Most of the time I hear what sounds like drums (or whatever the instrument may be) being played through a cheap and/or misused reverb unit or plugin that is *supposed* to sound like some great big room of one sort or another.

I think that a lot of the thin-ness is also largely due to most of the arrangements. Someone mentioned the high and fast harmonized guitars and thin drum-beats, which, left with no balance (i.e. slower parts with some time to take a breath or two, be they heavy, or somewhat more subdued) sound horribly thin and most of the time fatigueing to listen to.

Metal in a rock setting. that's what I want to hear. Disgustingly brutal guitars over the heaviest of drums, all sounding as though they were played by someone who has no horns or burning flesh in a quaint (yes, I said quaint in a metal thread) room with hardwood floors and high ceilings.

Is that so much to ask!?



By the way, word up on the vegan scene. that probably makes about.... 2 of us.

[Ajpulzetti]

also, just a quick note on the kick. Try and mix it right around where the vocals are. Of course you don't have to keep it there if you don't want to, but an acquantance of mine once told me that he heard that kicks should just about equal vocals. It may sound like a bad idea at first, but if you start listening to things with it in mind, you'll be surprised how common it is.

oh yeah, and hail the dark prince, of course. (I'll probably be banished to heaven for leaving that out of my last post.)

[Punkity]

I just checked the band's site. Although I don't get into the new style of deathmetal so much (Venom is more my speed), I am always a sucker for literary references as a basis for bands/albums. I just finished "The Screwtape Letters" for the 20th time last month, and I've got to say it gets creepier everytime I read it. Great stuff to found a band on. Almost as good of an idea as Rudimentary Peni's "Cacophany."

Tell the band to "keep the situation well in hand" for me.

[trodden]

I just checked the band's site. Although I don't get into the new style of deathmetal so much (Venom is more my speed), I am always a sucker for literary references as a basis for bands/albums. I just finished "The Screwtape Letters" for the 20th time last month, and I've got to say it gets creepier everytime I read it. Great stuff to found a band on. Almost as good of an idea as Rudimentary Peni's "Cacophany."

Tell the band to "keep the situation well in hand" for me.

Hey thanks punkity,
actually, wormwood is the band i play in, not the band i will be recording. The band i'm recording is much more black metal than us (wormwood) who are more of a dirge core stuff. But yeah, thanks again, we did get the name from the book, the screwtape letters!!! then found out all the other meanings behind. The band that i'm speaking about in this thread features one of the bass players from wormwood, Larry, plus two guys from Teen Cthulhu (RIP), guitarist from the fitness, and the drummer from Skarp and Splatterhouse. And as mentioned in my first post, play a traditional norwegian style, fast, with melody and wickedness....
They are called The Book of Black Earth.

the funny thing is, people have been referring them as "white belts of black earth" due to various hilarious and silly reasons.