new jack needs help upgrading front-end

[jellisnyc]

hello all. i, like many other new jacks, have a simple motu 828/cubase sx setup. i have a cheapo behringer board and a very small collection of microphones. i've got a little money to spend (about 2K) and i'd like to take this stuff to the next level.

i'm thinking pre-amps. i've spent some time in fancy pants studios and what has always amazed me is the difference the pre makes. i've got sm57's and i'm recording at 24/48, but it sure doesn't sound the same.

i've been looking around and it's a confusing market out there. i'm not sure what i should buy. i've been checking out products like the digiMax from presonous. i like that it's got 8 channels, but is this really the quality i'm looking for? then there's the presonous eureka that has only one channel, but it has a compressor and eq built in. both of these products are much cheaper than the tube pres from folks like universal audio and avalon. i'm a little hesitant about blowing all my money on one of these...

i have another question regarding a/d conversion. products like the digiMax have built in converters. do these blow away the motu converters? the only converters i've ever heard are the motu ones, so i don't really know what an amazing converter sounds like. should i invest in better converters?

if anyone has any input, it would be greatly appreciated.

[signorMars]

First off, I'll say it nicely before one of the board nazis yell at you... under the sticky Best of TapeOP there is a ton of good stuff about mic pres. You might try taking a look. I don't know from A/D converters, but as far as pres, you could either snag a couple FMR Audio Real Nice Preamps... those sound quite nice, or you could upgrade your board. I have an Allen&Heath MixWizard 16:2 that I love. The pres are pretty much universally good (not amazing or anything, but quite good), though they occasionally are a bit midsy, and the EQ is fantastic. You can pick one up new for 999 or used on ebay for slightly less (but not much... these things hold value quite well). Depends on what you want, though.

[Electricide]

Get something you won't ever grow out of. Especially if you have the opportunity to spend 2K at once, instead of piece-mealing together.

I'd say either one or two Sytek units, at four channels a piece, you could get 8 channels and have $$$ left over.

Or, get a bucket for some API or OSA 312's. The bucket with power supply is up front money, but then you can add pres to it for relatively cheap whenever you have the money. Do a search on the board for OSA or API 312 or 512. I think Fletcher Audio sells em too.

[jellisnyc]

Thanks for the tips. I definitely want something I won't grow out of - at least for the next few years.

signorMars mentioned getting a better board. Would getting a better board be a wiser investment than outboard pre's?

Also, I've been through the Best of TapeOp threads, and there's tons of great stuff in there. However, I haven't really found anything that addresses how someone small-time, like myself, goes about expanding their capabilities on a budget.

[Red Rockets Glare]

I've found that the coverters in the MOTU stuff sounds alright, but the really good converters make a WORLD of difference. THe Apogee Mini-Me has two really amazing preamps and awesome converters and fits nicely in your budget with enough left over to get a few outboard channels.
cheers,
raymond
oh, and ps, suckafuck!

[locosoundman]

i'm thinking pre-amps. i've spent some time in fancy pants studios and what has always amazed me is the difference the pre makes. i've got sm57's and i'm recording at 24/48, but it sure doesn't sound the same.

I think you may be wise investing in some better mic's too. 57's are great for guitar amps and snare drums, but as for recording vocals and acoustic instruments, there are much better choices available - even those Shanghai U87 knockoffs sound better on my voice (IMHO). Someone mentioned the Sytek preamp, which is actually a realy great sounding 4 channel pre, and they are available for around $800. Keep an eye on ebay, and then contact the seller (Mike Stoica). You may be able to work something out with him.

Buying good stuff is really making an investment. It holds its value, and never stops being useful, never goes "out of vogue."

[I'm Painting Again]

start with the sytek 4 channel its just shy of ~875 ordered direct from mike stoica..an increadable value for amps that sound this good..a cleanish sort of pre and for that reason a good first one IMO..

then you have 1100 left..hmm

great river me 1nv fits nicely into budget at 1075$ neve 1073type 1ch -
or go with vintech or other companys 1272 clone usually about 1200 for 2
channels..

or

1 ch OSA (API type) and an OSA lunchbox is ~1000$


or a UA M-610 for that kind of flavour,its ~1000$ 1ch (2-610is 1899$)

slightly over budget is the UA 2108 for ~1400$ and
the same sound as the 1176 comp
and many treasure its sound for rock music..
and its 2 channels..

all these amps mentiond you will never outgrow maybe you can upgrade your clean channels to millenia though..but a good starting pont none the less..

heres a good quote from this board about pres :

When you do get preamps, consider these first:

1. Urei 610- absolutely mondo beefy analog. Gun metal grey to deep bronze in tonal color.

2. API 312- sort of the antithesis to the Urei. Bright and clear. White in tonal color.

3. Neve 1063 or Neve 1073. Great preamps with very musical EQ onboard. Brownish and very 'guitary' in tonal color.

4. Telefunken V72 or V76- bright and spanky. Good clank, great for drums, rooms, vocals. Bronze to zinc chromate yellow in tonal color.

These are all meat potatoes. Buy your gear in pairs too.

so if you would rather have a tight punchy sound the OSA might be the one if you want "beefy analog" the UA's might be the ones..If you want rich guitars and vocals maybe the Great river..any of them will serve you well..

you just have to figure out what is best for you and only you will know that..

good luck

[I'm Painting Again]

p.s. dont go crazy thinking about converters till you have everything else in place and you hoan your skills to the best of your ability..motu are used on tons of pro recordings every day..really dont sweat it at all..

[jellisnyc]

I'll be recording a bunch of dirty rock n roll, so I'll look into the Urei 610, or the UA 2108. Thanks for the info.

Any tips on where to buy gear of this sort? I'll certainly look about on ebay, but maybe elsewhere?

[I'm Painting Again]

well I know sweetwater.com sells UA..and probably tons of other places..I think they all sell them for pretty much the same prices..you really need to hear this stuff though please dont take my opinion as gold..its really your taste that matters here..

[jellisnyc]

ha, i'll definitely be doing my homework before i go blowing two grand. this is like buying your first house to a 21-year old audio nerd.

[I'm Painting Again]

haha lol..so true..

really good luck..im sure you will be happy with whatever you end up getting..nice micamps make it so much better to record period..everything will sit better and have a more musical tone and timbre..it will really start to sound like records you like..

[mexicangrady]

I just picked up a UA2108 and I love it. It can be really dirty or nice and clean depending on how hard you slam the output amp on it.