mixing hardcore/horror punk

[dungeonsound615]

So im working with this horror punk band think misfits with a more hardcore influence. This band is kinda sloppy and i tried to get them to do more takes but they have that its good enough attitude. So any suggestions for mixing this kind of music they want it to be kinda raw which is fine but i want it to sound like a half decent recording also. Im finding that there are tons of pick clicks on the bass guitar track, and the snare is very ringy which is the sound he is going for even though i think it sounds kinda crappy. What to you all suggest for this kinda band, ive mixed other bands before and have been happy with my results but i feel these guys might be bit of a pain to get sounding good.
thanks

[matter]

Draw the line with them and tell them you can't have your rep out on a limb. Appeal to their artistic side. Appeal to their professional side. Is it digital or tape? Digital I'm guessing. Plugins will help. Such as a limiter on the bass set just enough to cover the attack of the pick. IMO tighter is better on drum sounds. You can always add that ring later. Can you retrack? Can you mix it into the studio phones off another send w/fx for the drummer?

[Mark Alan Miller]

When mixing it, just attempt to make it the punchiest, clearest mix like you always would, right?

Don't declare to the band "I'm gonna clean you guys up when I mix" - just do your best when you do it. Telling them you're going to deliberately going to "change their sound" will likely result in a chorus of "don't f*ck with our sound, man!" So give it your best and address the band's desires as you go. If you're good at mixing, you should be able to make everyone happy, including yourself.

That being said, sometimes you just gotta let it go. When that happens to me, I try to find out how they will credit the recording... if they want to list you as anything other than "recorded by" or "engineered by" I'd suggest saying "guys, you really did all the production work yourself - I didn't earn a production credit. Why don't you just list the band as the producers?" That will get you off the hook.

Good luck - keep us posted!

EDIT: Super-fast attack, fast release on the limiter on bass, only touching the clicky peaks. Be careful with fast limiting, as it might modulate on the fundemental of the waveform and create buzzy distortion components. Have you considered a de-esser to de-click the bass?
Slow attack, fast release on kick and snare compression will help make the attacks pop and minimise the ring. Slow down the release time to further minimise ring/sustain.

[dungeonsound615]

Great to see someone understands what im saying. BEing a somewhat fan of the misfits myself i know what there going for, however im looking after my reputuation also. As for the click of the bass your thinking a limiter will help with this, i knwo its subjective but any suggestions on settings for this(I actually hate asking for settings from people but maybe a starting point). I was spending a small bit of time tryign to find the area th eclick was falling into with a narrow Q and sweeping the eq to no luck. As for the drums i hear ya completly i like then tight also i mean even his kick drum had some ring to it arghhh. I might be able to retrack, i was able to get it sounding somewhat good with some eq and compression but it could sound way better as its not making me go wait thats it.
thanks

[marcusb]

As for the click of the bass ... I was spending a small bit of time tryign to find the area th eclick was falling into with a narrow Q and sweeping the eq to no luck.

Those clicks are more to do with amplitude (peak) spikes rather than being a frequency dependent thing. A limiter will tame the peaks, and as someone said also a de-esser could help. Tune the sidechain into the most peaky part and try and attenuate that a little with the de-esser. Probably a combination of de-esser and limiting could be the winner here.

As for the drums i hear ya completly i like then tight also i mean even his kick drum had some ring to it arghhh.

Would it be feasible to 'cheat' it by say putting a sampled kick and snare behind the main kick and snare to give you a little front end and punch? Soundreplacer does on ok job if you are willing to spend the time time aligning the replaced samples. I find soundreplacer can't get accurate enough to avoid phasing and weird artefacts if you are mixing a sample with the original signal.

Cheers,
Marcus

[dungeonsound615]

Hey there i thank all off you for the advice so far. SO i spent some more time working on this song and im trying to use the limiter to no avail, no mind yo ui understand how compression works but i have always just turned knobs till ive heard what i like and so far i still hear the clicks.( and whoever said its when he clips your right). I have noticed that with everything up the distorted guitar completly masks the problem of the bass, however i would like to learn how to use the compressor to solve this problem if possible. The drums are sounding much better i found i had to compress the snare which im still trying to find the correct settings to what my ears tell me sounds good im not quite there. Well its sounding better so im getting there.

Any if anyone in chicago who thinks they have a firm grasp on compression and limiting want to give me a lesson or two i would be all for it

thanks everyone

[Mark Alan Miller]

Getting it at the source is the best way to go with clicky bass tones. I understand that it's too late for these takes...
Rememeber that compression/limiting that has too slow of an attack will actually make the problem worse!
Try a Waves C1 with look-ahead kicked in to get a "zero-attack time" limiter, and then try to tune the sidechain to the most noiceable portion of the click.
Another trick might be to re-amp the bass, or use a SansAmp type unit to actually distort the bass a touch. I've saved some pretty rotten bass tones this way. (Not ones that I recorded, of course! )

[matthewbarnhart]

No offense, but I think you need to stop right now and tell the band to find someone else to work on the record.

The fact that the drums ring shouldn't bother you this much -- it's what the drummer's going for, and your personal taste in drum sounds doesn't matter. If the guy asks for them to sound "tighter", you can tell him how to acheive that, but if he likes it ringy, then make the best damned ringy drum recording you can.

The only technical problem you've mentioned is the clicks in the bass tracks, and that should've been dealt with at the source. You can try a de-esser like one other person mentioned -- the dbx 263x would be my choice, and they're cheap.

As far as "protecting your rep" goes, I think a reputation based on giving bands what they want and working well with others is just as important as making great-sounding records.

I'm not trying to sound like an asshole here, it just sounds like the way you work and what you want to hear in a record conflicts with this band's taste. This has happened to me -- a band I've worked with a bunch in the past wanted their new record to sound like Born In The USA, so I gave them the names of some people who might be willing to make a record sound like that.

If you can't let your opinions go, then let the record go. There will always be other work around the corner, so long as you're honest, flexible, and easy to work with.

mb