bowed/singing saw mic tips?

[chris A.]

Any tips on recording a bowed saw? (AKA a singing saw.) I want to get some nice bow noise along with the resonance. Close mic-ing is awkward because of all the movement that goes into playing the saw.
Chris

[thunderboy]

I've worked with a saw player a number of times in live situations. What worked best for me (placement-wise) was keeping the mic under the saw, right next to the player's leg.
As far as what mic to use, well - I tried many, but ended up liking a CAD E100 best (versus the usual live suspects - 57, 421, Audix D2, as well as Oktava MC012 and various AKG condensers) due to its relatively flat response and excellent rejection.
Again, this was live with a large band, so isolation was an issue...

jt

[crow]

According to Jeff Johnston, a friend who plays saw a lot in Austin, the standard way is to stick a mic between the floor and the saw facing up at the saw, or on the opposite side (above) which is worse only because the stand might be in the way of the bowing arm. the point to this method is just to have the mic facing perpendicularly to the surface of the saw.
I've had good results with this method and with a condenser a few feet away for a roomier sound. the first method should get you more bow noise. also make sure your sawist(?) uses plenty of rosin if you want more bow noise. you probably knew that.
I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all, though. Does anyone else have any techniques for this? Beattie?

michael crow

[cgarges]

Try emailing somebody at Electrical Audio ( www.electrical.com ) on their forum page. Ask about the saw sound on Nina Nastasia's "The Blackened Air" album.

Chris Garges

[thunderboy]

Heh...that's the saw player I was talking about! Not sure how SA recorded him tho. However, EVERYONE SHOULD BUY ALL OF HER ALBUMS.

As a side note, I also had the experience of miking the same saw player's foreskin (story found in another thread, comment from that thread found below...)

He left the band to join the circus about a year ago.

jt

[brian beattie]

My only experience mic'ing a saw was on a live to 2 track session. I stuck a shure 300 (bi-directional ribbon) between the convex side of the saw and the washtub bass player. I used an ampex 602 preamp, and pushed it pretty hard. No audible distortion, but it pretty much smashed those 2 sound sources together in a musicy wad. This resulted in a sweet, singing tone (mostly as a result of the players technique.) The edginess of the bow tone was minimized, but the notes always sang right through the sound of the band.
ribbons make sense for saws in the same ways they make sense for violins and other bowed instruments. they minimize any "scratchiness" that may be overemphasized by a mic with hyped treble. Sometimes this "scratchiness" may cause the upper harmonics (as opposed to the fundamental) to show most prominently through a mix, causing you to start cranking down the treble in order to hear the root of the notes more clearly. Ribbons often solve this problem.
brian

[cgarges]

JT,

I'd love to buy "Dogs" except that it's out of print.

I love "The Blackened Air" and I just found out about her new one. I haven't bought it yet because my birthday is Monday and I've been dropping hints to friends and loved ones.

Where's she from, anyway?


Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[A.David.MacKinnon]

I have two saw players in my band. That said I've always had a hard time getting it to sound right on tape. When I mix the saw is either too loud or I can't hear it. It's a tricky one.
The advice about mic'ing from the bottom is very good. I've also found that putting the mic a few feet away can mellow some of the spiky notes.

Good Luck!

[thunderboy]

CG -

She's from NYC.
"Dogs" had the best packaging, too bad they ran out...

jt

[Russian Recording]

Nina Nastasia is great, and yes, the packaging on DOGS is amazing. I guess it cost something like 6.00 to package each CD! Ive heard the new one on vinyl and it sounds fantastic... recorded at Black Box in France by Steve again.

A great sounding live room is very flattering on a saw. Ive had the pleasure of recording saw, coincidentally, at Electrical, Studio B. I used a Coles 4038 directly above it and also a room mic (a Schoepps 221b, omni mode) about 10' away and about 7' in the air. I panned the Coles hard right and the room mic hard left and it was a very cool effect. On another track I used the Coles alone and it sounded great, a ribbon really compliments the smoothness of the saw.
On another session I tried an Earthworks QTC omni on the floor just in front of the saw player (about 1' from his feet). This way it did not get in the way of is playing. It was very accurate, but I prefer the sound of the Coles

mike

[cgarges]

You guys rule! Email me if you find an extra copy of "Dogs."

Chris Garges