Real Tape or Fake (FATSO)?

[cactus]

Objective: Tape sound as an effect.

I track digitally and am considering buying either an Empirical Labs unit or a real tape machine to use as an effects unit, mostly.

I'm wondering if I should go for the more expensive but more predictable and less bulky Empirical Labs stuff..
or
...Go for the cheap (~$350), 8-track teac unit at the music store on the corner.

I'm not trying to convince my listeners that I'm tracking on a tape machine, but I would like to dial in a little bit of something new to my mixes.

Anyone with opinions, strong yes or no, please give input.
thanks

[Rodgre]

you know.... I was JUST thinking a similar thing on the way home from the studio not fifteen minutes ago.

I have been using PT with the McDSP Analog Channel plug-in to give me some tape saturation effects lately. I like what it does, and I've been preferring it to bus compression lately.

I just wonder if it sounds good enough compared to mixing to 1/2" for real, or if it sounds as good as say, tracking to RADAR....

Anyone else have any thoughts on plug-in Tape simulators versus the real thing? I mean objective thoughts, not just "if it ain't analog, it ain't shit" thoughts...
Roger

[JES]

"Good enough" is pretty subjective. If you want some of the effects of tape, there are lots of cool plugins that simulate tape FX in the digital realm -- in addition to McDSP, I can think of PSPVintageWarmer and Steinberg Magneto as ones that can do it.

Neither sounds exactly like a FATSO.

And none of the three sound exactly like analog tape.

So it's a matter of which sounds you like and what tradeoffs you're willing to accept. For the plugins, I'm sure you could download demos. Some high end audio dealers will let you try out a FATSO as well, if you are so inclined.

Me, I'm happy to use plugins for effects. I don't worry if it sounds just like tape. I just try to make it sound good, and I think Magneto sounds good. I'm going to download the Vintagewarmer demo any day now and try that one out as well.

A nice compromise might be a 1/4" or 1/2" 2-track mixdown deck, if it's properly set up and sounds good.

Me, I'd skip the 8-track.

Best,
--JES

[Gebo]

I had similer feelings... I wasnt liking the sound of most of my recordings, cause I was using a digi001, and lack any decent pres, so most of my stuff was lacking the sound I was looking for. Dont get me wrong, Ive heard, and been a part of many all digital recordings that sound amazing (My bands newest record done at Dead Air being one of them, well, I think it sounds awesome, but I digress), so yea, I wanted to be able to acheive more STANK. I had the chance to get a tascam 388 for 500 bucks, so I did it. Id say its a good route. The Pre's sound good, It runs at 7.5ips so its not quite as clear as you might want. But I love it... In short, go for the tape route. Than if you want more, get the Fatso, and have even more options...

[Rodgre]

"Good enough" is definitely a subjective term.

I guess that was a bad way to put it. I'm not comparing analog to FATSO to McDSP to Cranesong Trakker, side by side by side....

I will say that a little bit of McDSP Analog Channel has gone a long way in giving me a bit of the "mush" factor that my 001 mixes have been lacking. It may or may not fool anyone into thinking it was mixed to tape, but to my ears, a bit of it has made me happier with my mixes. That counts.

In general, I've been slightly unhappy with 001 mixes (bounces to disk) when compared to analog mixes (from ADAT) where the tracks get electrically blended in an analog mixer. The McDSP plug-in has helped me get my mixes to feel more blended.

One of my favorite and most analog sounding recordings is Buddy Miller's new CD, or any of his or his and Julie Miller's CDs. He does them all at home in ProTools using a Cranesong Trakker. They sound as fat and analog as anything I've ever heard.

I can't afford a Trakker, and I can't seem to find a decent 1/2" 2-track that I can afford. I track with great sources, great mics, great (river!) preamps, into PT or to ADAT, and I hate to have the last step in the process leave me cold.

So far, I'm digging the McDSP.... but it's new to me. I might be excited about it now, but six months from now, I might not be so into it. I can't tell.

Roger

[deadair]

thanks embyro..... that record is like a collection of bizarre guitar sounds.

i have similar thoughts as well though about the whole analog vibe/squash/low-cut, but i think a lot of times i tend to use it as an excuse to myself as to why i'm not pleased with something, i.e. "i bet tape would take care of this sound/problem" to the point where i've over mystified it sometimes.

but really, i feel that anything done analog should be able to be acheived with digital, you've just got to find the way to do it, and really, i don't know about you guys, but i don't have that much experience with analog, so i don't even know how these preconceptions of mine would all actually sound.....

i guess what i'm saying is, i don't think digital should be the scapegoat of why we're all sometimes unhappy with our sounds......... but, what do i really know

kev i'd be really interested in checking out your 8 track.

[JES]

Agreed. The deal with analog is that is does some nice things for you automatically, especially with the high end and the dynamics, that digital doesn't automatically do for you. But I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to make awesome sounding digital recordings.

Best,
--JES

[Gebo]

Will, I hope your still interested in helping us when we record the Red Reaction lp, cause you'll be able to get your mitts all over it! I totally agree with the fact that anything done analog should be able to be acheived with digital, the only problem in my case was cost. 500 8 track unit, or spend 1000-2000 on some good analog pres and comps and maybe a board. Its all subjective it seems. peace.

[deadair]

yeh dude, i'm still interested. whens that shit on? i looked at the 388 on ebay and it looks crazy. 8 tracks 1/4" seems a little rough, but sounds fun.

my mitts are ready.

[tiger vomitt]

instead of using plugins on your mix bus, have you tried running your mixes thru a preamp?

i run mixes thru my great river pre sometimes. 75% of the time it makes the mix the most hugest most colorful thing ever and it's amazing. the other 25% it was better off being a little smaller and i have to find some other way to get the squishy thing going on. i find that occasionally the great river makes the mix a little bit too bright. on an intentionally dark mix this can be a problem. but usually it's pretty awesome.

if you have a preamp that is only one channel but would be good, you can still do it. since youre on a DAW you dont have to worry about the tracks syncing up after going thru the pre. just run it thru one side at a time.

ive run drum submixes thru my shitty ART pre for mega dirt. the results were good but getting it to sync up with the original non-crappified drums were a pain in the butt.


have fun,

evan

[joel hamilton]

I love the ART tube MP for that exact reason. "the beauty of loss" is a powerful thing under the right circumstances.

I have used it after a good pre in my main vocal chain to skim off frequencies, and make it sound like a (shitty) approximation of a U67 that had been dropped a few times with a lame tube in it. That worked really well.
Sometimes, it really is what gear CANT do that is exactly the reason i like it.

Like tape....

[dumbangel]

last month on another audio forum (gearslutz) someone compared the same audio signal running thru 3 different boxes towards DAW: an Otari tape deck, a Fatso, nothing.

Everyone agreed the Otari didn't sound as good as the Fatso (but Otari is not Studer nor an Ampex). And many people who like me were skeptical about the Fatso, got convinced it was a great purchase for their studio.

I'm about to buy one, not because it sounds better than tape, but because I don't want to deal with all the problems a tape deck generates. (noise and big volume in the room, maintenance, tape cost,.. I think Larry Crane an article about that) and because i think the shit sounds tape-like enough thru it.

[tiger vomitt]

i hate this thread, gear lust is soooo evil. ive been wanting a fatso forever and this is just making it worse.

khai, a link to that gear sluts thread would be awesome if it's handy




peace

evan

[Gebo]

yea, 8 tracks on 1/4" is a little, well yea, its sketchy. But it sounds good, what ive done with it so far. We are still writing, we had like 9 songs, than decided we didnt like all but 3. Now we are back up too 5, that are all winners, so, id say another 2 or 3 months, plenty of time to relocate so we cant hunt you down and make you listen to us, for a long long time...

[dumbangel]

2 interesting links about the Fatso:

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.p ... ight=fatso

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.p ... ight=fatso