So is it really good if I think it sounds good?

[Auxillary]

So tell me folks. If it sounds good, is it really good?

The drummer who cant play in time worth a shit, but you ran his ass through any wonder-name brands of equipment (api, neve, urei, UA, manley, cranesong etc...)... sure as hell sounds good doesnt it?

or the the liberachi who recorded himself on a 4-track. sounds like shit huh?

Tell me really, if it sounds good, is it really good? Or is it just a good sounding peice of shit?

[cassettefetish]

Isn't that for the listener to decide?

[joel hamilton]

Your definition of "good" will define you as an engineer. The answer is yes, but whether anyone else thinks it is "good" is what really seems to be your question.....

[Auxillary]

I think my focus here (as shown by the examples) is the distinction between sounding good, being sonically intact, and what's there actually being good. Good for your health, good for your soul, good for your ears, good for you somehow.

Ive simply noticed it's the first thing people say when they're sick of trying to get the material to sound right. "man, if it sounds good, its good". I.e. stop trying to get it to sound GREAT, and let my shitty playing just be.

[scott anthony]

Isn't that for the listener to decide?

Exactly. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If a snare sound gets you going, good for you.

Most folks seem to respond to the words or a motif (guitar hook, etc). I can still remember the first time I heard Creep by Radiohead and that loud guitar entrance...

hmmm... so I guess REALLY good sound can get you a chance with the listener that average or bad sound would not....

[scott anthony]

Ive simply noticed it's the first thing people say when they're sick of trying to get the material to sound right. "man, if it sounds good, its good". I.e. stop trying to get it to sound GREAT, and let my shitty playing just be.

I'm trying to wrap my brain around this... sounds like you've been feeling like a turd polisher lately.

I say make it sound as good as you can within the context of the gig, smile 'cause you just made beer money, and go spend it trying to find a good band...

[Auxillary]

Ive simply noticed it's the first thing people say when they're sick of trying to get the material to sound right. "man, if it sounds good, its good". I.e. stop trying to get it to sound GREAT, and let my shitty playing just be.

I'm trying to wrap my brain around this... sounds like you've been feeling like a turd polisher lately.

I say make it sound as good as you can within the context of the gig, smile 'cause you just made beer money, and go spend it trying to find a good band...

No actually, Im getting sick of people expecting me to give a damn about if they think XXX is really good. Sure its nice to discuss it, but hen it comes down to it, I really dont need to hear about whether you think XXX is a valid idea or a good song. Or when people ask in a public forum for peoples opinions or ideas... then feel the need to defend themselves or posture somehow. it's like the old "Do you think Im pretty?" "Oh yes of course!" "YOU'RE LYING! IM NOT! WHY'D YOU LIE TO ME"

I think it's goes 2 ways, either 1. it's my music and I do it my way. If you ask me about it, ill tell you about it. 2. you're paying me to record your music... my way. if you dont like it, fuck off. My bills, as nice as cable internet is, arent worth a few days of stress and lack of sleep fixing your stupid missed drum hits. And Im sure there's someone else who enjoys my way of working.

[kdarr]

My answer: yes.

But will it sound good to anyone else? And who is it supposed to sound good for, if anyone, other than yourself?

If you're trying to sell the result as a product, it needs to sound good to your target market. If you're not expecting on selling anything, it only needs to sound good to you.

Basically, the way I see it, ideally the engineer's job is to find a point where a product will sound good to him/herself, to the client, AND to the audience.

Obviously, that's not always the case. Usually some kind of concessions must be made as to which party the final product is to be primarily suited.

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[scott anthony]

I think I'm getting it...

The hardest thing to deal with sometimes is reaching a consensus. The less experienced the partner, the harder.

The one benefit I've had from not engineering full time is being able to control the speed at which I decide to enter a creative relationship. Bad ones suck hard, and you're right, are not worth the money.

If it sounds good to you, great. If it sound good to them, great. If you like it and they don't, tough on them. If they like it and you don't, they don't have it together. Sounds like the last 20+ years of my life.

[neemer]

I know lots of records that "sound" good but are terrible. I'll never listen to them. Ever. I know lots of records that "sound" bad by most people's standards that I put in constantly. "Game of Pricks," that's not exactly gonna win an "Engineer of the Year" award for anyone. But it's honestly one of the best rock songs I've ever heard. Absolutely perfect as far as I'm concerned. If the songs on Pet Sounds were really really bad, who'd give a dump how "good" it sounds? On the other hand, if those songs were recorded on a boom box they'd still be those songs. They'd still be powerful, beautiful, all the adjectives people like to use. I'll take a great song recorded poorly over a crap song recorded with Neumanns and a Neve anyday. The way I like to think about it, think of one of your favorite songs. If that song had been recorded on a boom box by someone who didn't even know what compression is, would you still listen to it? I've rarely heard anything that's unlistenable. Well, except for all that radio crap.....lol Of course, if the band can't play well, it's gonna be crap no matter what you do. I probably completely missed the point here of what you were asking, but anyway....But to me, sounding good doesn't mean anything. Except that it "sounds" good. A great sounding snare that can't keep time doesn't do anyone any good.

[scott anthony]

Ugh... getting pissed just thinking about it...

"Remix? But I think it sounds great!"

or

"You put out that other mix? What the f***!"

[Mark67]

If it still sounds good the next day you're probably doing all right.

[jamoo]

Depends on what you mean by 'good'. Some people think it means recorded well, other people think it means it just sounds good, or played well, and still others, all of the above. My vote is for #2.

I'm starting to think the instrument matters more than the player or recording technique. I have a cheap guitar I've spent hours and $ modifying, and I'm almost never please with it. But it's unstrung right now so I'm forced to use the other one that sounds soooo much better. It's really stupid that I don't pick up the better one 1st, as opposed to the one I'm more comfortable with and used to, which just so happens to sound like crap.

I think it also depends on your perpective. Are you a musician or an average schmo or schomette listener? I'm going to use Depeche Mode as an example, though I know many don't care for them. Almost every exquisitely produced Depeche Mode song starts out as Martin Gore really naievely plunking out simple bits on an instrument. These are the demos. I think a musican can hear the songs in there, their raw essence, but the schmo is really looking for production. Back in, say, '92, I would have balked at the demos I've since heard. Today I think hearing Strangelove as Em, C, and D strums on an acoustic guitar is great.

So, the drummer who can't play in time needs a really good kit.

And, Liberachi needs to give his 4-track to a musician for meaningful feedback.

So tell me folks. If it sounds good, is it really good?

The drummer who cant play in time worth a shit, but you ran his ass through any wonder-name brands of equipment (api, neve, urei, UA, manley, cranesong etc...)... sure as hell sounds good doesnt it?

or the the liberachi who recorded himself on a 4-track. sounds like shit huh?

Tell me really, if it sounds good, is it really good? Or is it just a good sounding peice of shit?

[@?,*???&?]

If you are moved and the band is moved, then you have done your work. Now it is time for the public to weigh in. Nice job!

[Professor]

Your running headlong into the difficult fact that recording and music in general is usually a collaborative artform and what is good to one person will not be good to all people. Breaking out from being a musical masturbator who does everything himself for his own enjoyment into the world of working with others to create a finished recording can be quite a jolt.

There are significant differences in opinion where what is "good" is concerned, and we all run into that on every session. I personally try to make sure that my end of the job as "Engineer" is covered first and foremost. If I can make what they play sound as good as it possibly can sonically then I have done the biggest part of my job. If the drummer can't play the parts and I have to align sections, I do offer to do it but wait for the musicians' approval. If the rapper can't actually land the words on the beat, I offer to fix it, but never press the issue.
Now that changes if I am also "Producer" for the project as I will then dig deeper and try and pull better performances out and work harder at creating textures and variety in the music, but again, it depends on the approval of the "artists".
When I am a "Mixing Engineer" I may well love the sound of the mix I created and be horrified when the request is made for more reverb or less lead trumpet, but at that point, the artists are expressing their opinions.

In the end, I do make a value judgement of whether I think a project is "good" or "bad" and I make that judgement by placing my name on the product or not. I have had someone sit next to me and tell me not to align the vocals on a rap project, and tell me to push the lead vocals further back behind the music, and just today I recorded a saxophone with a weird buzz on the horn that I really disliked, but the artist felt was part of the sound of his horn.

In the end it is simply your opinion against the other guy's opinion and that is both the beauty and tragedy of collaborative work. True, you will sometimes have to endure a horrible recording that is sonically beautiful and musically criminal, but don't assume that the other guy's ideas are always wrong, because there will be times when your judgement is off and their insistance will produce a recording that makes you look better.

-Jeremy