Going Pro

[Rip Tailor]

Hello, I'm new to the board and glad to have found this incredible resource!
First a little background........skip if uninterested..........
I have been recording music since I was about 16 and over the last ten years (26 now) and slowly but surely collecting gear, knowledge, and debt. I graduated a couple years ago with an assosciates degree in audio production at AIS (a lotta people have had a bad experience/talk shit but I loved every minute). I have been increasingly happy with the quality of the recordings made using a Layla 24/96 - Cubase - Digi001 (soon upping to the 002)- Protools as the core setup. I also have a Fostex R8 1/4" 8 track analog deck which I sadly admit haven't used much lately. My main interest is in recording live music, but i have gotten alot of side work doing hip hop and electronica. I recently got really lucky and was able to move the studio to an incredible location with lots of foot traffic ect. I really would like to get the studio equipped to the level of pro quality and begin advertising ect. ect.

After reading the interview with Walter Sear it made me start thinking alot about the longevity of analog and the integrity of the recording industry slowly in decline with the advent of the ability to get a bunch of gear and immediately be able to call yourself an engineer........ any way.....

....now my question/scenario.......

You are starting up a small, yet fully functional live music recording facility and have the adequate room, space, ect. Lets assume that all of the necessary elements are there in the knowledge and experience of the staff.
You have a $20,000 budget for gear. What do you buy? Definately longevity is a factor, as well as getting a broad range of clients. Right now I am leaning towards a core ProTools HD and possibly a Mackie D8B (whats up with the dxb???...probably seperate post all together!!!!).....

Anxious to hear what you guys think!
Rip

[scott anthony]

You have a few questions to ask about the business you want to own before buying gear. One of the biggest ones... Is it your room, or are you going to cater to freelance engineers?

When I walk into a commercial studio, I expect a good patch bay, decent monitoring and some basic mic choices.

If it's your own room, you can put up with some inconveniences and get that groovy extra outboard, etc. instead of X number of sm57's.

[Substrated]

Hey Rip, here's my first post as well... I took the leap about two years w/ a simular budget. My goal was/is to have a great frontend and use my daw as a tape machine. ie no plug-ins! Here's a quick list

-TL Audio m3 tubetracker
-32 ch soundcraft ghost
-empirical FATSO
-lexicon mpx1, mpx 500
-presonus acp88
-2 maudio delta 10/10
-2 tlm103
-akg 414b uls
-at 4033
-3 sm57's
-2 ppa1 condensors
-akg D112
-octavia mc012
-nuetrik trs patchbay
-event 20/20bas
-KRK rockit's

My thoughts, The TLA M3 is a great DAW front end. Clean to grimey w/ a great eq. The ghost I use for headphone sends while tracking as well as extra inputs and then to mix out of the box. This makes a huge difference!To many condensors! Akg 414 (new) is not the mic I thought it would be. would get a ribbon instead. 2 beyer m160's or a royer for variety. Would dump the presonus for more cheaper single or stereo comps. having 8 channels of the same comp sound=boring. I find pro tools complicated and overpriced. The HD converters sound good but not for the money. I'd go with a couple lucid or apogee 8 channels and use neuendo or something. The deltas are great for the price range but don't command the wow factor

patchbay is a must! (just don't smoke pot and then try to figure out your signal path)

cables stands racks cost money work it into your budget!

hindsight

the ghost sounds good and adds flexbility with extra inputs but I might dump it for a dangerous music summing box and get some better pres or comp instead. my 3 cents...

[I'm Painting Again]

20k might not even be enough to cover the cables in a commercial facility..its not uncommon, even for people doing recordings in the basement, like myself, to spend thousands on cableing and patch bays..not to say its not possible to open a studio on your budget..i think you should only buy stuff if the work you have comming in justifies the purchase(s) period..its known people that dont know whats up will book a studio for the names "protools" and "neumann"..so thats a selling factor for prospective clients..you need a good demo reel and references probably..your location should dictate a lot about what you should invest in if this is really what you want to do..look at the other studios in your area..what do they have? what are they lacking? what are their rates? etc etc..if you charge 200 per diem you need to book 100 days of work to recover your 20k investment..thats nearly 1/3 of a year of booked solidness before you can pay rent or eat..just some thoughts..hope they give you ideas..

[marqueemoon]

I am a total amateur, and intend to stay that way. If you're serious, I would draw up a real business plan before you even begin to consider what gear to buy though.

[cgarges]

See what's going on in your area. Demographics are much more varied in this business than you might think. There are only a few studios left around here with 2" machines and they spend more money on maintenence for them than they pull in on sessions where they're actually used. Everyone here has some sort of digital multitrack format. Most studios have a ProTools setup, but not all of them. Mix formats vary pretty widely, but everyone has a method for burning a reference CDR. There are only a few studios with 1/4" or 1/2" machines, and those get used pretty rarely, too.

Take a look around, see what people have, how much use their machines are getting, what clients are willing to spend money on, and make your decision based on that.


Chirs Garges
Charlotte, NC

[@?,*???&?]

Get an Oram console or some equivalent. DO NOT GET A DIGITAL CONSOLE IF YOU PLAN TO MAKE RECORDS! Get something with 'character of sound' and realize you can do all automation in Pro Tools- at least until you get some serious cash and move up to an API Legacy with Flying Faders.

[dokushoka]

I wouldn't stress to hard about gear. I think an engineer is a little like a consultant. Band wants to make a record and get a particular sound, but they don't know how. YOU do. You help them get a sound. That's all they really care about, whether you can fulfill that role or not. You will get business by proving this to clients. I dunno. gear is gear, ears are ears.

[Family Hoof]

substrated, you don't mention any sotware or cabling in your gear list? I strongly second what jeff Robinson says about the digital 8 buss (or any digital console). It's totally useless if you have pro tools and i would never want one anyway. I know a guy who's real sorry he bought it as it only gets used for monitoring the stereo mix out PT and some keyboards and headphone amps.

[Shawn Simmons]

There are two reasons I would go to work at a studio (besides my own). One is the people who own it/run it. If the people at the studio kick major fucking ass, then I go there. Talent, chops, experience, personality, integrity, attention to detail, compassion, patience, (and I'm sure a bunch more adjectives) that's what I look for. If you're one of those people...great.

Second, the gear and room. Why beat around the bush fellas? Gear is where it's at. Space is where it's at. If I see some top notch gear and it works (a very important and sometimes overlooked quality), I'd go work at that studio. If there's a nice room with vibe and comfort (NOT A FUCKING DENTIST'S OFFICE!!!), I'm there.

Now, if you can provide something from these two categories that doesn't already exist in your town, then build a studio. Do not take the attitude that if you build it, they will come. They won't. And good studios maintain and keep their clients, how will you get them to come work with you? Are you just recording friends? Cause they don't always pay the bills.

Plan that shit to the hilt, don't rush into it. And get ready for sleepless nights, high stress, and going months (or years) without turning a profit.

Welcome to studio ownership!

shawn

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, there's just a lot of things to consider. Owning a studio is hard and should be thoroughly investigated before you enter into it. It took me about a year of planning, after spending years working in studios, to get a studio going. And looking back, I probably should've planned it out even more.

[Substrated]

hoof's right, I didn't mention software... or headphones/amps or stompboxes or.... I had 40k, bought a suburban to fit all the above shit in plus drum kit,misc percusion,amplifiers, guitars, bass, keys, power conditioner etc etc etc.

Do you have the space? Do you live in it? If so get the basics and go for it. Taking out a loan or something to start a commercial studio seems like suicide. But to run one out of your house is fun. Don't quit the day job...I would avoid buying anything that won't be useful 10 years down the line or that is a compromise unless it's premeditaded (sp?) Is the digital world topping out? Is 24/192 it or is pro tools gonna come out w/ 32 bit whatever next month and your 15k HD system is bunk. I really wanted neuendo and some lucid or apogee a/d. but I didn't have another 8g's. Looking back I 'm glad I didn't. Let the gear grow with you. Britney Spears and the backsreet boys aren't trying to break down my basement door with hands full of cash ready to record. But I'll keep on recording local bands and songwriter types and add better shit to the pile. The other posts are right the gear is secondary. check out gravelyvoice.com perfect example of someone who doesn't have all the big name stuff but has recorded everyone (seattle and beyond) and their mother three times. same w/ old Larry Crane

If I had 20k and had to do it over...
5k for console (used)
1k monitors
5k compressors
2k effects
4k mics
1k misc
sounds like you got a computer and some converters

look at shawn1272's studio. HE has "the basics" of a big time studio but he's added another zero to 20k! Think small dream big wow I gotta go to bed, I'm getting cheesy good hunting!

[Rigsby]

I'm a home recordist, but i've used studios a fair bit over the years. As a client, the priorities for me are (probably in this order):

1/ Whoever's running the place, their personality etc
2/ Space
3/ Preamps
4/ Parking/Access
5/ Mics

I wouldn't go anywhere i didn't feel really comfortable with the contact/manager/enginner/whatever and their abilities/ attitude. Space is not only important for the obvious recording reasons, but usually also for comfort. Mics are at no.5 as they can always be hired if everything else is in place. Saying that, if it was my place and i had everything else covered, i'd go bigtime on the mic spending.

[bigtoe]

another take it with a grain of salt answer...

the 'if you build it they will come' is kinda a myth...more like if they are coming- build it. if they keep coming...add on...if yer getting money doing hip hop...i'd keep going on that if you want the place to run...there is no money in recording live music as far as i can see...so start small ...add on to what you have bit by bit rather than blowing a 20K wad...

like, if you don't have money coming in i personally wouldn't bother with an HD system...15K so you can compete with the kids who steal the program? i mean - you know - wait until you are co-existing and competing with the bigger studios for that...nothing to do with yer skills...more to do with just experience and the amount of time you have been in your market/ area...

i sent out an email a few years ago to 20 people i had been recording for 4 or 5 years...soliciting them for what they would want in a studio ...none of them cared at all what they were being recorded with...they wanted windows and magazines and a TV and the place always to have a drum key and extra strings...

later-
Mike

[Cellotron]

Having started a small business with very little capital - let me warn you that the idea that you have 20k saved that you can just use it for gear and you should just make a cool wish list and blow it at once is pretty darn foolish.

When first starting a business - especially one where you need to create things in a physical facility - there are endless little things that cost that will very quickly add up. Business name registration fees with the county, meetings with accountants, the credit card swiper and set up fee for accepting cc's, a printer for the invoices, 500 feet of Mogami, phone line, dsl, dry wall, 2x4's, advertising, studio furniture, money to live on while you're building the facility or things are slow etc. etc. can quickly shoot into the thousands.

So my advice is: keep the 20g's in the bank - create your studio with the equipment that you already have - and when you need something it will be incredibly clear as to what that thing will be. Get questions answered by actually working in the studio - like how much business your getting initially (which will determine whether you need a big advertising budget or not), who is the clientele (i.e. what equipment you'll want to focus on getting changes a bit if the hip-hoppers, corporate voice overs, or rockers, etc end up being the ones actually paying your rent, what the missing holes in your rack is, how much cash you really have to play with after buying all the little things that you'll need to actually open your doors. After a while it will be clear whether a high end comp or pre, or a faster computer, or a 1/2" mixdown deck, etc. etc. is more of a priority. But for now - keep your money until your farther down the road and can clearly evaluate what you really need.

Good luck!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[scott anthony]

Business name registration fees with the county, meetings with accountants, the credit card swiper and set up fee for accepting cc's, a printer for the invoices, 500 feet of Mogami, phone line, dsl, dry wall, 2x4's, advertising, studio furniture, money to live on while you're building the facility or things are slow etc. etc. can quickly shoot into the thousands.

Good luck!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

I read this quickly as "500 feet of Mogami phone line" and nearly choked on my juice...