fatten my sound

[garyb86]

I'm looking for an affordable device, like a compressor or something, to fatten my mixes up. But also versitile for things like bass, guitar, samples, etc.... Any suggestions?

[w_]

What's your budget?

[Rodgre]

That's a tough question to answer.

What's not fat about your tracks? Great sources, great mics, great pres, great compression, if needed, and a great sounding recording medium/converter.....

Put the mics in the fattest spot, press record!

If I can make one serious comment, if you go from low-budget preamps to a high-ticket pre, you will all of a sudden hear the world open up.

I thought my tracks were good. They weren't bad..... Then we patched into a Great River MP2-NV preamp and all of a sudden the game changed. Things went from "yeah, it took a little coaxing, but listen to how great that sounds!" to "yeah, I accidentally plugged in a microphone and now I hear god speaking to me in stereo."

There are so many places to improve your tracks and make them "fatter", and the preamp is a major place to start. Still, in the quest for big sounds, I went crazy with trying new mic techniques, new mics, compression, etc etc.... I developed some good techniques along the way, and when we bought the Great River, those techniques led from big to HUGE.

That's my 2 cents.

Roger

[dramadisease]

get some tube line amps, bias them wrong, slap em on the stereo buss
BAM!
no art crap, pure tube, transformered design!
-bryan sours

[@?,*???&?]

Save money for each project and make a trip to a local SSL equipped studio at the end of mixing to dump your mixes onto 1/2" analog 2-track tape through the SSL Quad compressor. You'll be very glad you did and you'll be sending analog tape to mastering. Wow.

[@?,*???&?]

Sorry, posted that assuming you are doing the DAW thing...

[cgarges]

Just out of curiosity, what makes so many people think that putting a compressor in line will automatically make their sound fatter?

Chris Garges

[Rodgre]

Just out of curiosity, what makes so many people think that putting a compressor in line will automatically make their sound fatter?

Chris Garges

Well it's not always the right thing to do, as I've heard compression certainly make things sound smaller too, but if I take a bass guitar track, for example, and if it's sounding a little thin, with maybe more attack than a full sounding sustain, a bit of limiting or compression will go a long way in making it sound "fatter" or at least have a bigger presence in the mix. Same has worked for most other tracks. Compression can give the track more sonic weight by making it's presence more accentuated in a mix.

Of course people overuse compression like it's going out of style (is it yet?) but I still really like hearing those Tchad Blake/Mitchell Froom and Joe Meek records where extreme compression is used as an effect.

I'll still stand by my suggestion of a high-ticket mic pre (not necessarily tube, by the way....the Great River/Vintech/Averill/Neve stuff is not tube and it's as "tubey" and "warm" as anything you'll ever hear) and good recording technique as being the best way to get "fatter" recordings.

Roger

[Madness]

The Universal 2-610 is a very warm pre, and might suit your needs, or you can just get one channel- real nice. Also, the Vintech 1272 is a bit less than the 2-610 (I think they're on Ebay for about $1200) and is beautiful sounding. I tend to use it more than the 2-610, depending on what I'm recording. However, the 2-610 is killer on bass, and Overheads, among other things.

Best
Phil

[inverseroom]

Aphex 204 with Big Bottom. Just a touch!!!!!

[E-Rock]

G-ride!!!!
Good to see you on the TapeOp board man!
I think my friend here is looking for something to track thru to his ProTools rig, and also to fatten up the stereo buss when mixing.
Turntables,programmed beats, gtr,bass, hand drums.... ect..
My guess is you don't want to spend big $$$$.
Soooooo, having said that, anyone got any ideas?
peace
-e
ps- G, you should post some of your tunes

[AnalogElectric]

First of all, know the frequencies that each instrument should fit in so they have space to breath. Second, refer to your favorite albums that have your idea of a 'fat' sound and disect what makes it 'fat'. Third, use some compression on bass and drums with some subtractive EQ--it allows for tight/thick bottom end. Fourth, find a good mastering engineer to slam the signal without losing power. Fifth, write and compose songs so they have 'power'--either by layering guitars, allowing parts to change dynamically, and/or mixing verses differently than chorus'.

Hope that helps,
-- Adam Lazlo

[cgarges]

Roger,

I was joking, somewhat. I'm very well-aware of what compressors do (and limiters, for that matter). My point was more along the lines of, why always a compressor and not better EQ choices or mic placement?

It always seems to come back to compression, especially by people who don't have much experience. People constantly ask me about buying this or that "good, cheap compressor" to "fatten up [their] mixes," and it's usually right after they ignored my advice about what mics to get and bought whatever the closest, cheapest Chinese large-diapragm mic was. Often times, they do buy a cheap compressor and then say, "Oh, wow, it made such a big difference." Then, two months later, they're back asking about mic preamps or something because they're still not happy with their sound.

When I compare a well-recorded sound without any dynamics processing and one with heavy dynamics processing and no other adjustments, I almost never find the compressed sound to be magically "fatter," even in the context of a mix. If anything, it usually takes away some low end and accentuates sibilance. And yes, I have found this to be the case with Ureis, Neves, dbxs, and a host of other units. I guess I can say that the EMI console limiters at Abbey Road do some nice things to the bottom end, but I think that has every bit as much to do with the excellence of Chris Blair's application as with those actual limiters.

My point is that I just don't understand why so many people are convinced that buying the magic compressor (I'm sorry, the CHEAP magical compressor) is going to solve their problems.

Thanks!

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[soundguy]

I have a small smattering of the best compressors on earth at my studio. Im also a very big proponent of compression. Too much terry date as a kid. the fattest sounds I always wind up recording are guitars with no compression. drums with no compression. bass with no compression. etc. etc. The problem that I always have is that often, the tracks are TOO big, so enter lots and lots and lots of compression to make the stuff all fit together in a nice little rock and roll place. A compressor is only going to make your thing louder and add whatever quality its amp is going to add. A poorly recorded track through a compressor is just a louder version of the crap you had to start out with. also, misusing a compressor (whatever that is) can take a very excellent sounding track and make it sound like junk. Broadcast compressors do an excellent job of delivering that scenario.

here's how to get the most awesome guitar sound ever. this is not a joke. Before you debate this, you might consider all the most awesome guitar sounds and see if they didnt have all of these things.

you need:

the most awesome sounding guitar for the sound you are after
operated by
the most awesome guitar player who is nice and quiet between his notes on both his left and right hand
plugged into
the most awesome sounding amplifier
wired up to
the most awesome speaker
placed in front of
the most awesome microphone
which is plugged into
the most awesome mic amplifier
feeding
the most awesome tape deck
which gets mixed through
the most awesome console
and recorded on
the most awesome 2 track.

"most awesome" will be case dependant often, track to track on a single record. Determining the most awesome choice is really where the idea of art and recording seem to meet at a nice place.

Recording good stuff really is this easy. It wast until I had the above signal chain, or at least %95 of it, that I was able to record the most awesome guitar sound, and then, it was painless and happened quite by accident. Compare that to years of cheap guitar, amatuer guitar player, cheap amp, shitty mic, blah blah blah, bang the head against the wall trying to mix my crappy sounds blah blah blah, better go ask advice on the how to get the most awesome sound.

and there it is. If people were realistic about their situation, I think a lot of people woudl be a lot more gratified with the work they are doing. If you have the most awesome stuff, you have the potential of making the most awesome sound, stress on the word potential. If you dont have the most awesome stuff, you will always be limited by whatever is the weakest link, be it the gear, be it the band, be it the room, be it the mixing console, be it personal experience as an engineer, etc, etc, etc.

dont ask me where mario caldato fits into my theory here because I dont have an answer for that one. Perhaps he's an alien and has a UFO and is therefore unexplainable...

but for the most part...

dave

[cgarges]

Amen, as always, Dave!

CG