Selling out??

[dynomike]

Alright... I've been around here long enough and I have no real excuse, but I'll admit: I know shit - all about the record industry. I now have written + recorded what I think are some songs that more than a few people I know would enjoy, and I'd really like to know what I should be doing to get these songs out there.. who can get me distribution and record deals?

I've been doing a lot of songwriting and recording but not a lot of hand-shaking, so I'm not too sure what a good next step is. I'd like to make a career either as a "recording artist".. and performing of course, and by producing/engineering.

I'm going to university next year taking English. I'm going to have lots of spare time.. what should I be doing to start making some money off my music? I'm curious to hear what you guys think.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Mike

[Mark Alan Miller]

I hate the term "selling out".
Most folks who make music would love to make a living doing it. If suddenly they do, are they selling out? Of course not. They're making a living doing what they love to do.
If you're worried about selling out, please stop putting money/fame/"success" into the equasion, and just make the music.

That being said (sorry for the brief rant) tyr not only the usualy channels of "getting signed" (and good luck to ya - there are few givens) but also music for synchronisation (movies, TV, commercials, etc) and also the songwriter/publishing route.

Just some ideas... thoughts... next! (settng myself up for a flamewar?!?)

[jtienhaara]

I'm going to university next year taking English. I'm going to have lots of spare time.

Errrr... You sure about that?!?!?

Johann
(Still on page 4 of Ulysses)

[dynomike]

Compared to what I'm doing now.. working overtime hours at radioshack.. probably i'll have some more time.

Cowtrax, no worries about the "selling out" terminology, I'd rarely use that term seriously.. and I'm all about the money and fame! Haha... I figured if I used it as my title people would read my thread.. and it worked.

Mike

[Mr. Dipity]

Next step - read this:

Steve Albini's infamous essay on the music industry

Done? Still interested? Then you are either

1)Insane, or
2)In exactly the right place, since you've got absolutely no interest in the 'commercial' side of music.

As far promotion and distribution - I've taken the DIY route so far. I did several small production runs of cds, and sent them to college stations and record labels.

Slowly but surely, we're building a fanbase. If I never make a dime off any of this, so what? (Actually, without counting all the toy costs, and all the time spent, I'm several thousand dollars poorer for this craziness). Judging from the downloads, I got my music into the hands/mp3 collections/radios of thousands of people at this point. People are even hearing about us from strangers in bars thousands of miles away, and writing to us. How cool is that?

[JohnDavisNYC]

i completely plan on selling out at the first opportunity. seriously.

as you said, you haven't been doing much 'hand shaking' but i'd say, unfortunately, this is a very important part of the business if 'success' is what you're after... some of the most successful artists i know are also some of the best schmoozers i know. it sucks if you're introverted (like me) but i've seen it definately pay off for people... (not for me yet, i'm still working on it... )

john

[jtienhaara]

Since you're in Canada, have you talked to the folks at SOCAN? They're cynical and fantastically helpful.

(For those outside Canada: SOCAN is the local performing rights collective. They're staffed by industry vets, which is why I recommend 'em.)

Cheers,

Johann
Not a sellout or an English major but I do buy stuff at Radio Shack

[jtienhaara]

BTW. Take this with a grain of salt 'cuz I'm a complete failure in the music biz!

But I have seen a few friends' bands go on to reasonably good things. Not major deals or anything, mind you. (Avril did rehearse for a month at my rehearsal studio, but that was after she had already recorded her album and was getting "prepped" by Nettw?rk.)

Nevertheless, playing live is the only avenue I've ever seen work. I know in theory you can get a "world audience" without having a local one. I just haven't ever seen it actually happen.

But again, take this with a grain of salt 'cuz I have no audience period. (Except for my cat, but she's not too keen on my music either.)

Cheers,

Johann

[Mark Alan Miller]

If I never make a dime off any of this, so what? (Actually, without counting all the toy costs, and all the time spent, I'm several thousand dollars poorer for this craziness). Judging from the downloads, I got my music into the hands/mp3 collections/radios of thousands of people at this point. People are even hearing about us from strangers in bars thousands of miles away, and writing to us. How cool is that?

That's pretty damn cool.

Hell, I make my living recording.
I love it.
I make records that make people happy. (Hopefully. Most of the time?!!) Even if it's only a few people.
and Heck, right now I'm listening to (reviewing) rough mixes for an album I spent the past 3+ weeks on, as, after 1 last day of overdubs on Sunday, I start mixing. I am so pumped about this record. That's payoff enough sometimes.

Irony is, the first couple of records I made with this same band years ago I made no money at all, and I became a fan of theirs then. How cool is that?

[Mr. Dipity]

Nevertheless, playing live is the only avenue I've ever seen work. I know in theory you can get a "world audience" without having a local one. I just haven't ever seen it actually happen.

Steely Dan did it...

[jtienhaara]

Nevertheless, playing live is the only avenue I've ever seen work. I know in theory you can get a "world audience" without having a local one. I just haven't ever seen it actually happen.

Steely Dan did it...

Fair enough. But I didn't see it happen to them. I have seen a lot of friends and acquaintances try (and fail) to "make it big" without sweating on stage.

On the other hand, I've seen a lot of talentless bands sweat on stage for 1-2 years and get a loyal following. Even though they sucked. (Hope none of my friends are reading this...)

Not to discourage anyone. Sweat, wherever it ends up (on stage, in university radio towers, on the internet) is a key ingredient in any financially successful recipe. So good luck Mike!

Cheers,

Johann

[Mr. Dipity]

On the other hand, I've seen a lot of talentless bands sweat on stage for 1-2 years and get a loyal following. Even though they sucked. (Hope none of my friends are reading this...)

The time is really ripe for the internet superstars. They will not look or feel like the old superstars. Maybe they'll never make any money at all. Maybe they'll make a better living than the Bitch Slap generation, but no-one outside their tiny fan base has ever heard of them.

I've had 3,500+ downloads of songs from my current project's free EP at this point, and a growing mailing list. Am I a rock star yet?

(Let's see - Platinum is a million, Gold is a hundred thousand, so Bronze is ten thousand? What goes below Bronze? :>)

[yardleyone]

The major label is finally being exposed/abandoned for all of it's shortcomings/thievery. I would advise getting a bad ass website where you can sell MP3s (make sure the backend's secure), getting on itunes, getting in touch with a good booking agent, and looking for placement in film/tv/commericals. Before this, of course, you will have to foot the bill for a truly professional recording. If you're that confident in your product (and others are as well) you could perhaps work out something with a great studio/engineer on a points basis, though in the long run more money is to be made footing all of the startup yourself. Tour the country as much as you can opening for acts that will draw a crowd susceptable to your sound. Then... pray you get lucky

[rauri76]

Yeah making it?
How do they do it.
Surely all the power pop CA punk bands (a la Blink 182, you know the nasal vocal style with 4 count power chords and lotsa jumping around with the guitar shit) on fuse and MTV don't make it by playing countless nights at bars do they? I mean highschool kids, their core audience, can't get into bars. Also when was the last time you heard about some rap star (and Hip Hop really rules the record market) saying they played the bar circuit for years till they got signed? You don't they make demos. Back to rock (which is dead don't kid yerself) There was an article I read a month ago about radio stations are changing thier playlist because advertisers are often beer co.s and over 21'ers don't really listen to Korn or slipknot or whatever. (Thank god we ought to hear more Janes Pixies etc. when stuck in traffic don't hold yer breath though.)
So I have seen a band (Stellastar) go from relative obscurity in NYC to a video on Fuse/MTV and a feature Tower records commercial in about 1 year mostly because a young PR guy (Jonathan) took them under his wing and promoted the hell out of them.
An A&R freind at Columbia records here in NYC never heard of the Strokes before they were signed!? I have heard stories that they couldn't get signed till they sent a demo to England, then again whatsisnames folks own the biggest model agency in the US so they didn't have any connections?
When I worked at a PR firm this band called the Ping Pong Bitches were supposed to be the next big thing plenty of money and industry phonies backing them up. They were abso-fucking-lutely awful and I am pretty open minded. But the band was made up of models or some shit so...
How do you make it?
Luck.
Dumb luck, pure luck, connected luck, mommy and daddy luck, sheer luck, hard work and sweat luck, I don't fuckin' know luck.
thats how.

[texlop]

It's not because of talent, I can say that for shure, that you'll get famous. I've seen and heard of millions...well maybe not millions but dozens of artist that where well talented but never made it. The toughest part is probably getting your foot through the door. Basically you have to find someone that beleives in you and will promote you. Find someone who has a connection to some club owner, who knows someone, who knows someone, who knows someone in NYC, who knows someone in Washington, who knows someone in L.A. who knows a promotor from Waner Bros. or Sony who is willing to sell your stuff. If you start catching on it'll work out, But if you don't sell enough your label will drop you quicker than an old lady falling on her hip during her walk to the bathroom.