Good Marshall Recorded Sound

[MachTy]

Help me out fellas, if you can.
Equipment:
MOTU 828 mk2
SM57
Samson co1
Shure ksm 32 ( i think its 32)
Recording into Cubase SX (latest vers)

I'm recording a Marshall JCM800 driving a Fender 4x12
How should I mic this shindig? What mics? Mic placement? Do I need preamps or will the Motu's suffice (and maybe use vst preamp sim)? How should i set the tone on the amp (sounds good listening to it but different when recorded)?

Any help would be appreciated... as of right now I think that the sound I'm getting is muddy and nondescript or distinct.

I have a ART Tube mp preamp but i think i have the wrong adapter and its buzzy so any alternative to that would be nice if its even worth using it.

Thank you for anything,
Mach Ty

[thenumber]

get the amp so it sounds GOOD in the room. if it doesnt sound good in the room, then it doesnt sound good. then fuck around with mic placement for a while - youll get an idea for what positions sound like what. once you find the best sounding mic position, if its still not QUITE there, do minor adjustments to the amp settings. MINOR. if you dont know yr mics, get to know them. try them all. learn what they sound like. you have enough gear to get a great guitar sound. just a matter of knowing your tools.

good luck

[djslayerissick]

use more midrange than you normally would. and less bass and treble than you think you need.

use LESS distortion than you think you need.

use 2 mics on the same speaker. hard pan em left and right.

[LuckyPony]

hey dude,
you say that it sounds good to the ear??
man, thats half the battle won (depending on your ears)
pop that ksm32 where your ear thinks it sounds good
and pop a 57 on the speaker, right in the centre... bring them both up on the console, balance it all up
she bangs

[Shabbadoo]

A Marshall JCM800 through a 4x12 Fender you say? How funny, that's the same amp setup that Bobby (the guitarist in one of my bands) has, and I play through it a lot myself too. The guitar amp should be ok through the MOTU's preamps, since there isn't too much low end or high end in a guitar sound. I save the nicer preamps for the drums and bass and vocals, but nearly any old preamp is fine for the limited frequency response of a guitar amp. I wouldn't bother with the ART preamp or any plugins.

The way I mic the speaker is to put the mic (an SM57) a bit off the center of one of the speakers and just sort of angle it towards the side of the speaker cone. The sides of the cones are where most of the sound is coming out anyway, and if you point it right at the surface of the cone, I've found it gives you more low end in your sound. Some people like to use a second mic either out in the room as suggested, or directly on axis to the speaker (which gives more hi end). Then you mix the two mics together until they sound like you want. The two mic way can save you from having to eq, if you need more low, turn up the one mic, if you need more hi... you get the idea.

You can hear how it sounds (with just the one off-axis 57, the same amp and speaker) on the Paper Plates' recordings at my website. Actually, I think I recorded most of the Shabbadoo stuff with that same amp and mic configuration too.

I have a Digi 001 now, but when I did these recordings, I was just using the sound card on my Mac G4 for overdubs (with ProTools Free), and a Tascam Portastudio 414 for the basic drums/bass/guitar takes (a few of the songs were entirely tracked on the Mac). The only preamps I had were the ones on my other Tascam, a Portastudio 464.

Oh, BTW he is playing an "Epiphone by Gibson" ES-type hollow body for most of the Paper Plates stuff and some of it is played on a Heritage H-575 (another Gibson style hollow body). On the Shabbadoo stuff I'm either playing my beat up '67 Gibson SG Special or the Heritage.

hope that helps!

[Mark Alan Miller]

Simply done, I get the best results 95% of the time with Marshall/4x12 situations with a '57 dead center and on axis on one of the speakers.
Get/set the tone while dierctly in front of the amp, so you really hear it as it's coming off the speakers. A lot of folks dial in tones while standing infront of the half-stack, and that of course puts the speakers at knee/waist level... the resulting sound is nearly always too bright. Sometimes I'll add a 421 or 409 directly next to the '57, also on axis (but obviously a tad off-center) and sum the two through a subgroup on the console, varying the balance for a blend that pleases. Often times, a high-pass filter at 75 Hz or so is appropriate to tighten up the low end.

Have fun!

[dgochenour]

use LESS distortion than you think you need.

that is KEY advice! A JCM 800 sounds sooooo good when it's just barely crunchy.

[nacho459]

Try A diferent Cab! I hate the sounds of Fender speakers (post 70s that is). Try using a cab with Greenbacks or Vintage 30s.

[cashed checks]

Try A diferent Cab! I hate the sounds of Fender speakers (post 70s that is). Try using a cab with Greenbacks or Vintage 30s.

this is the real key as far as your setup goes. dialing down distortion is also right on. I've had a JCM head and a Marshall 4x12 for years and if you've got that combo it's pretty idiot proof no matter what mic, pre, etc you use(it might sound better/more detailed/pro with higher end gear, but even with the cheap stuff it'll still be unmistakably "marshall"). I've actually been wanting a new amp because no matter how much you fuck with the settings it still sounds like a Marshall stack. It just makes that one sound. Too bad i keep blowing my wad on recording gear rather than a new amp.