suffering prematurely from studio suck?

[sad iron]

Ugh....everything sounds like crap! Board pres, interface pres, compressors, mics. I just can't get anything to make a decent noise.

I guess this all started a couple weeks back when I started compiling demos to weed out the candidates to finish up my record. 24 tunes, some recorded when I had a Zoom MRS 1044, some when I reccorded in the box w/ only a blue tube/blue max AT 4040 for signal chain. Now I've got this Allen and Heath 20:8:2, more mics...more stuff...and listening back, 90% of the stuff I have recorded that I like was done on the shittier gear.

And the stuff I have been recording most recently? Don't even get me started. Every mix is disjointed, murky and flat. The sounds too.

I guess I should say (for those that don't know) that I'm not new to recording. I've been recording in studios for about 15 years and recording myself for several years. I am now at the point where I need to finish something for release at home and am just not loving the sounds that I am getting at all. And I need the sounds to stand up to other songs that were recorded in a great studio with a great co-producer.

I have been recently started selling off some stuff that I just don't use and haven't in a while. Looks like I am going to have about $500 to spend on something new (ugh.). Based on a previous thread I started I have decided to focus on getting a higher quality pre. But my budget leaves the choices limited. I have been going crazy reading and listening to sound sample and I decide to get something different everyday. I have heard that the M-Audio DMP3 uses the same Burr Brown chip as the Grace 101, so that intrigues me, but that's just more prosumer stuff. I have thought about the Aphex 207. The MicLim thing is intriguing too, but sounds like BS. It seems like the best bets are the RNP and the Grace 101, but that would blow my whole budget and I was really hoping to get an SM7 or similar or a tube mic like the CAD m9 or the ADK Generis GT-2.

I don't live in NYC anymore, so I can't go check stuff out. ANd the more I listen to samples on the 'Net the more everything sounds the same, accept for the stuff I just can't afford.

So, yeah, this is a long post thst's just me bitching. Anyone got anything to say that would convice me that the cheaper pres would stand up to the ones that would blow my whole wad?

Otherwise, I'm just going to sit here and stew....

[b3groover]

How's your room?

[sad iron]

How's your room?

Yeah, I thought about that too. It's a garage, but has a lot of angles to deflect sound. Probably not ideal, but I've recorded in warehouse spaces and gotten good souds, so I'm not convinced it's the room. It could probably be a little more dead, but I don't always like dead.

[Red Rockets Glare]

man, I can't tell you how much that Grace would improve your life.

[bigtoe]

been there. it sucks. but it can be done.

gear:

get an aphex 107...at least try it out. you can kind em around 100-150.00 and sell it if you don't like it... that and an SM7 would be rocking...it certainly wouldn't suck by virtue of your chain...both are acceptable.

i have projects i 'convince' the band to use studios for...especially when i had the mackie only... sometimes they don't work out just cuz there are better boards...but you know that... my solution was i bought a better board, better monitors and a 1/4". lets face it - use what you have only goes so far. if you want sound it has to do with gear to a certain extent.

non-gear:

i'd emphasize the positive in what you have - yes it sounds stupid...but it's true. a good song/arrangement that works around/with the gear will always whoop ass on a job where it's trying to be something else...or where it's rushed in the studio.

don't forget about mastering to make everything piece together better.

blab,
Mike

[sad iron]

get an aphex 107...at least try it out. you can kind em around 100-150.00 and sell it if you don't like it... that and an SM7 would be rocking...it certainly wouldn't suck by virtue of your chain...both are acceptable.

so you like the 107 more than the 207?

i have projects i 'convince' the band to use studios for...especially when i had the mackie only... sometimes they don't work out just cuz there are better boards...but you know that... my solution was i bought a better board, better monitors and a 1/4". lets face it - use what you have only goes so far. if you want sound it has to do with gear to a certain extent.

don't forget about mastering to make everything piece together better.

[quote/]

Yeah, the story here is that I recorded these 5 songs last year w/ Jay Bennett playing and co-producing and had 'em mastered by Emily Lazar. Now I have been sending it around and have had a few folks ask what the rest of the LP would sound like. Beacuse of $$ and a few other things, I'm not going to do the rest of the record with Jay so I have been listening back to the stuff I have demoed and really just wasn't hearing it, which I'm sure has a lot to do w/ my engineering skils as much as anything else.

You're right, good songs coupled with almost anything will always work with the right amount of knowledge and elbow grease. I am just freaking because I don't have one piece of gear that's, for lack of a better term, pro. So I'm rethinking the direction of my home gear....

[bigtoe]

never heard the 207...but the 107 is solid-sounding and very cheap. like, i bet the grace thing is great but taking into consideration your whole load...getting a better mic and pre seem logical...and you can sell the 107 ... they've actually gone up a bit on the used market. try telesisgear.com

i still don't think it's gear...just don't get frustrated with what you have. i hope that doesn't sound shitty...but i've heard stuff sound AMAZING on an roland or a cassette 4 track. i know- tired cliche but you said it:

"90% of the stuff I have recorded that I like was done on the shittier gear"

now they might not fit with the current crop of songs...and maybe you don't like the A+H. they are popular...not necessarily the best mixers. just cuz you change doesn't mean it gets better...even when you move "up."

just some further suggestions just cuz i've seen folks in the same situation-

- look at the type of album you want this to be or what it could be based on your situation. are you going to get the same sounds? well lets face it hell no different set up different time. so... great! you're in "revolver" territory...different record than "back in black"...i personally love records that work like this. they're the best ones. the ones that fail are the worst horrible.

- EP- be done with it and start on the next one. they aren't getting any fresher...let them go.

- Listen to the 5 songs you have unmastered...take that out of the equation for the time being...

- "So I'm rethinking the direction of my home gear"

don't force the buying and recording. try to do them independently. "oh i need this for this project..." i'm recording a guy this weekend who wanted to set up a whole computer studio for his project that he needed done by september. i was like - whoa...slow down...do one...do the other...no time for all that...takes away from the tunes/performance... and do you have drum heads? no cuz you bought protools?

take it or leave it and best of luck ...i'm coffeed up...
Mike

[sad iron]

man, I can't tell you how much that Grace would improve your life.

In my searching I saw that you had an aphex 107 at one point too, right? Comparison between that and the Grace? The Grace is real transparent right. Don't know how that would do with my stuff. Particularly considering the other stuff I already have finished

[b3groover]

Are you trying to mix it yourself? I did a project for one of the bands I'm in on an Akai DPS16 harddisk recorder. The summing bus on those suck but I took great care in getting clean, well mic'd sources into the recorder. I was also using an Allen & Heath MixWizard board as preamps as well as my Presonus M80 but I could only do 10 tracks at once and I was very limited in my mic selection.

Here's what I used:

2 MXL603s as overheads
1 SM57 on snare
1 Beta52 on bass drum
1 SM57 on guitar
1 Rode NTK on bass cabinet
1 AKG C3000 on Leslie top
1 Rode NTK on Leslie bottom
1 Studio Projects C3 on lead vocal

I overdubbed horns later and backing vocals later using the C3.

When I tried to mix the tracks internally on the Akai, they sounded dull and lifeless and muddy. So I took the tracks to a local proffessional studio where my other band (the organ trio) had recorded, mixed, and mastered our CD and he brought them to life! He was unhappy with my drum mics (he wished I had used more mics, but I didn't have any more!) but he used some light EQ and put the drum submix through a pair of Distressors and it was like night and day!

Everything else was just a matter of having a more professional, cleaner mixing bus and effects. I think it came out real well. Here's a sample:

http://www.rootdoctorband.com/audio/Love%20Bone.mp3

This was recorded over a year ago and now I have some better tools at my disposal but my goal is still the same: Get really good, clean tracks (the best I can get) here at home and then let someone with real good gear and ears and monitors and a room do the actual mixing.

Just a thought.

[Red Rockets Glare]

man, I can't tell you how much that Grace would improve your life.

In my searching I saw that you had an aphex 107 at one point too, right? Comparison between that and the Grace? The Grace is real transparent right. Don't know how that would do with my stuff. Particularly considering the other stuff I already have finished

I have and dig my Aphex 207. It is a very useful amp, not too colored. I like it best for drums. I use the Grace on everything I want to be extremely clean and solid though, it just makes every mic I plug into it sing.

Make you a deal.
You get the grace. If you're aren't floored, I'll send you a photo of me eating my hat.

[sad iron]

Make you a deal.
You get the grace. If you're aren't floored, I'll send you a photo of me eating my hat.

Now that's tempting. Mmmmm....hat.....

do you have any clip I could check out?

[Flight Feathers]

hey jason,

maybe you just need a different set of ears on your material. if you send me a song, i'll try and do a mix, maybe something will change...

you are working in logic right?


ayan

[ampguy]

don't waste your money on all that crap. Get the basics:

behringer mixer/pre, preferably a mx-602 if you still find one.

2-3 Shure SM57s, maybe a sennheiser e609

E-Mu 1212m PCI sound card, comes with all the sw you'll ever need.

RNC compressor.

That's it. That's all you'll ever need.

[Professor]

Yeah, I'd hate to say it, but I don't think now is the time for you to buy more gear - but for that matter I don't think you should be selling either. And for heaven's sake, don't ask a bunch of gear sluts what golden idol can be had for $500 that will cure all your pain! That's like asking a group of junkies what he recommends for a headache.

You are in a rut, kinda like having writer's block or a similar sort of cranial constipation. It's time to back up to simpler things. You're trying to record and mix a track at home, in a garage, and you're trying to figure out what $500 piece of gear will make it sound like the one that came out of the NYC mastering house like your other tunes. Now if you are liking the stuff that was recorded on the cheap crap last year, more than the current step up in gear, I think you have kinda proven that it is not the gear.

I know that sounds harsh, but I mean in the best of ways. You need to focus more on the music, the performance and your natural sound, and then find a way to capture it. You're turning yourself too much into an engineer and losing sight of the music. So stop listening to the RECORDING of your old demo and listen to the MUSIC, maybe even play along.

Now there is no denying that this takes work, and that you will need to find a way to get your sound to disc as well, but that can come later. First find the sound, and then the performance, and then just record with a single microphone and no effects of any kind. When you have the sound and performance back, you'll be able to try a few mics until you find the one that does it all by itself, and then you can start building the recorded sound back up. I'm not sure what the eventual solution will be for you, but I feel pretty safe in saying that it won't be found in tomorrow's delivery truck.

-Jeremy

[sad iron]

Yeah, I'd hate to say it, but I don't think now is the time for you to buy more gear....

Jeremy, I think you have hit the nail on the head here. I'm not being facetious here, I really do. When I think about my recording experience before recording at home--and after for that matter--I have always made great recordings in studios. I have worked in some great places with great gear and great engineers. When I started doing it myself I had some success but nothing ever came out sounding like a real, finished record in the way that I have always known it. I pressed on. I got a what amounts to good cheap-ish gear and instead of getting closer to doing what I have done in other folks studios I feel like I have gotten farther away. I know how to make a record. I know step A through step Z. Write, arrange, record, fine tune, overdub, mix, master--lather, rinse, repeat. I have always worked fast; at home I work slow.

I don't know, when I go into a 'real' studio, it seems like everything starts to flow. At home, not so much. A lot of second guessing, not so much flow.

This is a common thing, I know. When I try to think of what is missing between my 'real' studio experiences and home, sometimes the only thing I can think of is that I don't have the pricey gear and that's why things don't sound like they should. So I move a bunch of gear out and bring a bunch of gear in. Lather rinse repeat.

I know that I could take the gear I have and make kick ass recording with it, I just haven't been able to do it yet and that is really the root of this whole thing. There's a lot to what to you say I and thank you for saying it. Not a lot of folks would have done that. I know chasing gear is just something else to do besides chase the music I'm not quite getting. It's just a beard for being freaked out that I won't get something good. And the more folks like what you have done in the past, the more you feel like you have something to live up to. And when stuf doesn't sound like you want it to it's all the more frightening because of that.

When I say 'you,' I mean me.

So anyway, reality check. Just have to keep working. Maybe I will post some of the stuff I have been working on over @ the MP3 forum and see if I can get some feedback.

All that being said, I still would love to have a nice pre and maybe a great dynamic mic