Stereo Pair for Overheads, Acoustic, Vox.. adk or a-t?

[dynomike]

My only condensers are currently a sm91 (does this even count? ) and a stereo pair of Apex 420 ldc's which have a fairly harsh high end.. but still not quite detailed enough on acoustic guitar. I like their sound on acoustic, but for fingerpicking, its not quite fast enough I guess.

I'd also like a fuller sound on overheads, as these sound fairly harsh, and don't pick up as much of the kit as I'd like. Same goes for vocals.. brittle top end. I always end up using a dynamic and boosting the highs. But I'd like a good balance of detail in the high end without being overly bright.

I've been looking at the ADK a-51 le's, akg 414's, and audiotechnica 4047's.

So far I've liked the sounds of the akg's at a-t's, but haven't been able to track down audio samples of the adks. If any of you have experience with these mics, I'd love to hear about it. Thanks.

Mike

oh and don't bother with brand's that don't begin with "a", my mind is made up..

[cgarges]

I think you'll find the most flexibility with the 414s, as they're multi-pattern. I love the way they sound as overheads in a variety of positions and have been using them for years. I love the 4047s, but I'm not sure how they would work as overheads. I've never really dug that sort of low-mid bump sound (that the 4047 does so well) with overheads (like the FET47s, etc.) but I know Joel Hamilton's a fan.

I have a friend who is an excellent drummer and an ADK endorser and he raves about those mics (the 87-looking ones) as drum overheads. I did hear an album recently where he used ADK mics almost exclusively and it sounds terrific. (Although this guy could record with anything and it would sound terrific.) Lots of clarity and detail in the drum sound. If I get my hands on his for a bit, I'll be sure to rave about them.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[dynomike]

Thanks for the quick reply Chris.

The mics I have now are actually multi-pattern, and I find I so rarely use anything but cardoid that there isn't a lot of sense in me spending extra to get that. I think you may be right on the 4047 overheads issue. I do like the sound of them on vocals, but are they bright enough for acoustic guitar, generally? Does this adk endorser friend of yours have some audio samples I could listen to? For some reason, words just don't really describe sound very well.


Mike

[cgarges]

The label has been holding out on the release of the CD due to the usual holiday competition BS. There will probably be audio samples at www.bethchorneau.com at some point, but I don't know if the new stuff is up there.

Man, you should really check out Blumlien or spaced pair omni miking for overheads some time.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Professor]

Normally I love AT mics, and indeed I own at least 7 of them personally, and have over 30 of them in the school's recording and live collections. I haven't used the ADKs, but I've talked with the president of the company about the mics and have been considering adding a few of their tube mics to the collection here. And I've used all sorts of 414s, primarily the B-ULS, but also the TL-II, the E, and EB models and have a sort of love/hate relationship with them which is presently leaning more towards the former.

But of the three mics you listed, I'm not sure I would even consider the 414 in the same class - with no offense to ADK or AT, in fact I think they might agree. If you have the opportunity to get a pair of 414s, for heaven's sake, get them. If you can manage the transformerless TL-II or even the new XL-II (which I've not tried yet) all the better as I think that is really a much better microphone. But even if you're looking at the B-ULS I think a pair of those would really take your system up to a considerably higher level.
The AT-4047 is more of a specialty microphone, built to have a particular character that may or may not be right for as broad a cross-section of recordings. The ADK A-51, I'm not too familiar with so I'll let someone else comment on that.

-Jeremy

[syrupcore]

hey, I dont know dick but I put a pair of nt5s about 2 feet over a sitting guitarists head, about a 1.5 feet out front pointed at the usual spots and when I played it back, it sounded like the acoustic guitar the fella was playing. I almost shit myself as this was a very new sensation for me. I know you're talking more high end but I gotta plug them. When I got them, it was a toss up between those and the stapes. sadly my room is asssssssss so I stayed clear of the omnis. I'm extremely pleased with where I put my 300 bucks.

will

[jajjguy]

When I got them, it was a toss up between those and the stapes. sadly my room is asssssssss so I stayed clear of the omnis.

with closer mic placements, this really isn't a worry, and shouldn't prevent you from considering omnis. i say this not so much for you, as you've made your choice and are happy, as for others reading. if anything, i've found my omnis to more useful in bad sounding rooms than a cardioid just because i can feel free to place them really close and still know i'll get a good sound.

[cgarges]

with closer mic placements, this really isn't a worry, and shouldn't prevent you from considering omnis.

And especially true of the Stapes/Avenson mics. I can't stand drum overheads where the mics are placed too close to the kit (I've had to mix projects like this a lot). I recently tried the Avensons as spaced-pair overheads and found that I could get them MUCH closer to the cymbals than I usually dared and they sounded excellent!

Just another nice plug for Erik and Brad.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[pieter]

if anything, i've found my omnis to more useful in bad sounding rooms than a cardioid just because i can feel free to place them really close and still know i'll get a good sound.

Interesting. I would have thought it would be the other way around, since every time I do try a mic in omni in this one deadish, somewhat boxy sounding room I hear too much of the room...but I haven't put them up really close to the source either. I'll try this next time on drums. Thanks!

Chris, how close do you like to put the Avensons to the kit? Do you think that even if I am getting sounds I'm happy with that it's worth looking in to this(the Avensons I mean)?

[cgarges]

Chris, how close do you like to put the Avensons to the kit? Do you think that even if I am getting sounds I'm happy with that it's worth looking in to this(the Avensons I mean)?

Well, like I said, I've only done it once, but man did it sound good! I guess they were probably a foot above the cymbals. I was going for a "cymbal mic" type of scheme with an overall kit mic (a 414) about 4 feet above the kit, too. But the Avensons sounded great by themselves.

They're really great mics. Joel started a terrific thread on them a while back (it's probably in the review sticky) that pretty much hit the nail on the head. While they're similar in concept to mics like the B&K 4006s, I have been using the Avensons over the 4006s because they have a way of flattering the source that other accurate mics just don't. They're less flexible than some other mics simply by nature of the fact that they are omnis and they can be a LITTLE TINY BIT noisy on quiet sources, but they really sound terrific in most applications. I've enjoyed them as overhead mics, on electric guitar amps that need some help in the detail department, on acoustic guitar when proximity effect was an issue, and as drum room mics. I also recently played drums on a session where the engineer put one up as a top snare mic and the results were quite nice.

Plus Brad and Erik are really nice, hard-working guys. Ultimately, the decision is yours but I would say that they are definitely worth looking into. Any $500 pair of mics that outperforms a $2800 pair of mics regularly is worth looking into.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC