Recording rock drums with only 2 mics

[PT]

Hello,

I've got an MBox and only two channels to record with at a time. I want to record rock drums (music is kinda 70's power pop-ish).

What would be the best way to record the drums with only two mics?

I was thinking one overhead and one in front of the kick.

Also, would a KM184 as the overhead be good choice? (It's one of the mics I own.)

Suggestions regarding mic placement and mic type/brand are most appreciated.

[lee]

set up your kit in an open room, set up the two mics overhead (im thinking
pretty far apart (mic placment is the important factor)), and really use your ears. does it sound real? are you hearing the bass drum or just a "Wack!"?
and um.... good luck.

[philbo]

If you have an outboard mixer, you aren't limited to 2 mics. Use as many as needed, mix them to stereo while recording to 2 tracks.

BUT: Be extremely sure you don' t have any phase or mic positioning problems right from the start.. you won't be able to fix it once it's recorded. (You should always do that anyway, of course)

[Family Hoof]

Doesn't it occur to anyone to experiment and use ones ears anymore? There isn't a wrong way to go about this. The KM184 is a great overhead, you just have to spend a few hours experimenting with your kit, your room, and your drumming to find the best placement for your song. As for the second mic, rather than a close kick mic I'd find another condenser to use in front of the kit which should pick up kick drum and more detail + low end from the rest of the kit as well.

[I'm Painting Again]

i might try the ksm in front or overhead..and the sm57 a foot off the snare..

but yes only you can come up with the ultimate answer by experimentation..

[PT]

If you have an outboard mixer, you aren't limited to 2 mics. Use as many as needed, mix them to stereo while recording to 2 tracks.

I don't have a mixer, but that's a good idea.

But I was thinking that using just two mics would be a good place to start learning. I agree about "using my ears". I will do that, of course. I was just wondering if there was any consensus about a tried-and-true two mic technique for rock drums. Just so it's not a shot in the dark situation.

[lutopia]

I'd just go for a stereo setup somewhere in front of the kit. What's it called, xy pattern (scuse my ignorance)?

[Devlars]

PT

A KM184 would be a great mic to use as an overhead, a large daiphragm condensor would be ideal but yes the 184 will do the trick.

I have recently recorded drums using just two mics, I use a minimal ammount of mics on drums quite a lot actually, and it yeilds very good results.

Here are the things required to make a recorded drum track sound good with a minimal mic set-up.

1. a good, well balanced and willing to adjust drummer
2. a good, well balanced and willing to be tuned drum set
3. a good room to record in, kinda hard to make it willing to change though
4. a good, patient person that will be recording all of the above factors

I have been graciously bestowed with all of those things. Specifically though I used a MK319 placed 2 feet above and slightly behind the kit with the diaphragm staring straight down into the center of said kit, that would be the kick on mine. Now if your drummer, kit and room sound good then so should this placement.

The second mic was also a MK319 placed about a foot in front of and near the upper portion of the the kick. This gave all the bottom end of the kick drum itself but being a large diaphragm condensor it also picked up the rest of the kit a bit as well and sounds great.

As for how to have them placed in the mix, that's all preference. But I had the kick panned straight down the center and panned the overhead to the 3 o'clock position. This brought out the space between the two mics and gives you a somewhat stereo image.

I hope this suggestion along with all the others posted are of some help. Please do just ask if you would like any clarification or further description on the things I mentioned...I imagine the same would go for anyone who replied to your post.

Devlars

[Professor]

If what you are doing is learning about recording drums, then you should just experiment with all sorts of different arrangements.

I've always told folks that if you have only 1 channel for drums (whether live or recording) then make it a mono overhead. If you only have 2 channels, make it a mono OH, and a kick. If you have 3 channels, you have the option of either stereo OH and kick, or mono OH + kick + snare. If you have 4 channels then you do the standard stereo OH, kick, snare.

And I use that explanation to illustrate what is the most important for the sound in a mix. Contrary to the typical live sound guy, overheads are typically the most important because they capture the overall sound of the kit.

Now the suggestions above about just a stereo pair in front of the kit are very good as well, assuming you have a room that will help to bring out a nice sound from the drums. And since you're trying to learn, you should try every arrangement. Indeed, try using only a kick and a snare mic so you can see why that is not a good method.

-Jeremy

[Devlars]

Indeed, try using only a kick and a snare mic so you can see why that is not a good method.

All of what the Professor said is great up to this point. Many a great drum track has been recorded with 1 or 2 mics, pretty much most everything up to the 60's was done with no more than 2 mics. In fact for the most part it wasn't until 1966 when Geoff Emerick decided to move the mics in closer and use a few more than was allowed to get the phenomenal sound that he did on The Beatles recordings. So PT, 1 or 2 mics is a good method it just requires a bit more, heaven forbid, effort from you and the drummer.

[oliveloafe]

get more snare and bass drum in the mix then you think you need... it'll vanish in a wash of cymbals and electric guitars later.

[PT]

Alright, great posts.

I do indeed have a great drumer, great-sounding kit, and a pretty good room to work in.

I, too, agree that many great drum tracks were recorded with a minimum of mics. I usually prefer older sounding records so I'm starting off in that direction. In fact, my only gripe is that I don't have 3 (or 4) inputs to do the Glyn Johns method. That's about as fancy as I'd ever want to get. When I hear the drums on those Faces records...damn!

What do you all think about getting more snare and bass drum than I think I'll need? From what little mixing I have done, I can see how I might want more when it comes to mix time.

[helmuth]

Indeed, try using only a kick and a snare mic so you can see why that is not a good method.

All of what the Professor said is great up to this point. Many a great drum track has been recorded with 1 or 2 mics, pretty much most everything up to the 60's was done with no more than 2 mics. In fact for the most part it wasn't until 1966 when Geoff Emerick decided to move the mics in closer and use a few more than was allowed to get the phenomenal sound that he did on The Beatles recordings. So PT, 1 or 2 mics is a good method it just requires a bit more, heaven forbid, effort from you and the drummer.

Well, they didn't put those two on the kick and snare right? I guess you missunderstood professor.

[howiemarx]

an oktava 012 as overhead, and 319 a couple feet in front of the kick can yield decent to good results.

a single pzm has sounded good to me at times as well.

[Zeppelin4Life]

I seem to recall the arguable best rock drum sound ever recorded (when the levee breaks) was done with 2 stereo mics in a large hallway

just exeriment, and use ambience...you will need to probably boost the lows, as there is no close mics so proximity effect is not there. therefore less bass.