Micing very large drum kits with few mics

[jsegovia]

I'm on the verge of purchasing a large drum kit, a seven piece (8", 10", 12", 14" mounted toms, 16" floor, snare & kick). I don't have enough mics to mic each drum and stereo overheads, let alone a room mic or two.

I know, the key will be experimenting and finding out how I can come closest to the sound I want, but let's say I want big, substantial sounding rock drums (Peter Gabriel 'So,' King Crimson 'Thrak,' etc.) and toms in a very noticeable stereo field. Will stereo overheads, plus micing snare and kick alone get me in this direction?

In the latest TapeOp there's a very interesting article where Dave Mattacks describes a three-mic technique Glyn Johns uses a lot - I think I've seen that described in more detail here as well with neat diagrams. But I don't have very expensive Neumanns or AKGs to try that. What I do have is:

1 Rode NTK
1 SM57 (will probably pick up more of these if it helps)
2 Oktava MK12s
1 old Shure SM55 ('Elvis' mic)

I also have a set of Audix Fusion drum mics, 3 F-10s and 1 F-12. I'm hearing bad things about these though, low SPL and all, so I might take these back.

Thanks for any and all suggestions.

[xSALx]

MK12s in a stereo pair as overheads and then put the NTK on the bass drum and the 57 on the snare shell. Be sure to place the stereo pair behind the drummer. My curent configuration is similar. Good luck.

[drumsound]

Search Recording.org or PSW for the "Recorderman Overheads." it's the way to go!

[I'm Painting Again]

in that article he also goes into how the playing style, room, tuning, and preamps are a big part of getting sounds too..so think about what you can do to adapt your room/space, and playing technique to acieve the sound you hear in your head..you could try to do exactly as he says there..put one of the 012's above the snare between the racktom and the snare 6' off the floor and the other by the floor tom slightly to the right behind the drummer, shoulder height..then pan out a little..IMHO its a great way to do it..then maybe you could try the other 3 mics on kick, snare, room, anyotherplace, etc. till it sounds best..

[Professor]

I bet that Shure 55 would work out very well for a kick drum.
I think we are all leaning pretty heavily towards those Oktavas overheads, and the SM-57 on the snare seems reasonable.

I wouldn't recommend returning those Audix mics until you've at least tried them personally. I've not used any of those specific mics, but I imagine you could configure them to catch all the drums. I would probably just place the "kick" mic of the bunch on the 16" floor tom, two of the others on the 14 & 12" drums, and then the third one placed carfully between and a little further away from the 8 & 10" drums to try and catch them both. Or you could cover the three high toms and share the last mic with the 14 & 16 depending on what drums you play more. I personally will hardly ever reach up for that 8" but I will frequently kick in form changes off a floor tom - but your playing might vary. Either way, that would give you the ability to pan the toms pretty thoroughly and would allow you to actually try those mics before returning them.

Room placement would help you greatly as well. If you can negotiate a way to get the drums into a corner (projecting outward so the player is in the corner) you could try a very wide spread on the Oktava in front of the kit, like maybe up against the two walls that converge into the corner, almost like PZM mics. That would give you a huge stereo spread, a lot of projection from the drums (aided by the walls) and then all of the direct mics. For good measure you could also toss that Rode mic as a mono overhead behind the drummer.

That is, of course, assuming you have the ability to setup and record every mic that you own.

-Jeremy

[vernier]

Doesn't matter much ..I use either a U47 or M149 for overhead, or cheap D19 or ATM 33R ..whatever is laying around. For more natural sound though, just use *one* overhead mic.

[jsegovia]

Doesn't matter much ..I use either a U47 or M149 for overhead, or cheap D19 or ATM 33R ..whatever is laying around. For more natural sound though, just use *one* overhead mic.

How would you get a stereo image of the toms - do you direct mic each of those?

Jesse

[Devlars]

In the latest TapeOp there's a very interesting article where Dave Mattacks describes a three-mic technique Glyn Johns uses a lot - I think I've seen that described in more detail here as well with neat diagrams. But I don't have very expensive Neumanns or AKGs to try that. What I do have is:

1 Rode NTK
1 SM57 (will probably pick up more of these if it helps)
2 Oktava MK12s
1 old Shure SM55 ('Elvis' mic)

I also have a set of Audix Fusion drum mics, 3 F-10s and 1 F-12. I'm hearing bad things about these though, low SPL and all, so I might take these back.

Thanks for any and all suggestions.

Perhaps this site explaining the Glyn Johns method will be of some help. I set up that way with 2 OKtava MK219s that act as overheads/tom mics, a SM58 on snare and an Audix D6 on kick. I pan the snare mic to 9 o'clock, the "center" mic to 11 o'clock, the kick is centered and the floor tom mic hard right and I get a VERY broad big sound that way. I've even used the same setup minus the floor tom mic and the ovrhd/tom mic raised a bit further up and panned to the right and bit to fine results.

You could very easily capture the full sound of your kit by using the 012s as the overhd/tom and floor tom mics, the SM57 as a snare mic and either the F12 or the Rode for the kick mic. If you use the Rode for kick then try a number of placing to get what you like but for plenty of BOOM while still retaining definition then try placing it just inside the bass drum at the bottom angled up a bit so that it's "looking" at the beater. I have done this and its sounds great (I also put a foam pop filter on the mic and turn the -10dB pad on). You could also try using the Rode as a single overhead about 2-3ft. above the kit centered and aimed at the kick, the MC-012s as tom mics about a foot or so away from the 10, 12, 14 and the other about the same distance away from the floor tom. Then use the SM57 on the snare and F12 on kick.

Now all of this will capture the sound of your kit very accurately but it won't sound good unless the kit does by itself! So take your time to tune your drum kit properly and to taste otherwise you will end up with a great recorded sound of a horrible sounding kit. This may be obvious but some people seem to operate under the assumption that mics placed just so magically make the kit sound good.

[jsegovia]

Thanks for all the replies. Lots of very interesting things to try out and think about.

Here's a question, though. Would you keep the cheaper Audix mic set with the Fusion series mics or take it back and buy the more expensive set with the D series mics? Then there's a package that includes the F-10 toms mics but it includes an SM57 for snare and AKG D112 kick mic.

Yes, I know the key is to try them out but remember, I haven't purchased the drum set yet and if I want to return the mics I only have a couple of weeks to do it.

Jesse

[joel hamilton]

Unless you are charging yourself a large hourly rate, why not put up the mics in a way that seems good to you, record a 1 minute test chunk, and move things around based on the results you are hearing versus the ones you want?

The microphones you listed will all record sounds, and may have strengths and weaknesses that vary from anyone else's experience, especially all together on a drum kit.

Experimentation is one of (or should be) one of the FUN parts of this whole recording thingy. Try something stupid, or interesting, or reasonable. Try one mic taped to your head! anything. Compression will be your pal in this case as well. I have put up a C12 in front of a drum kit, compressed it, and used it as the entire drum sound for a really rocking song! I didnt HAVE to do that, but it just had so much character and sounded great, that we made a deliberate decision to go that route.

That would have never happened if I had been sitting around with a book about so-and-so, or a fucking diagram of how this guy did it.

Do it the way YOU do it. Make a noise. Record it. Catalog the results, repeat forever...

[Devlars]

Exactly! Getting advice, trying others methods are all well and good but by all means try your own methods even if you don't know what that is! Like Joel said that's the fun of it, the process of recording is suposed to be a joy not a task or a routine.
By the way if you tape a mic to your head perhaps you should put on a helmut first...unless of course the daiphragm of the mic sounds better when attached to your hair with gaffer tape in which case I bid you the best of recovery when you pull the tape off.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

Search Recording.org or PSW for the "Recorderman Overheads." it's the way to go!

it's right here if yr interested

[logancircle]

There is no "best way" to do this.

That said, here's my $.02 from being in the same situation countless times:

room mic (usually LDC): most important for gathering the fullness, the way the kit really sounds to ears in the room.

one well-placed overhead: so it gets the cymbals and toms really well. Move it around a lot till it's getting the meat of the snare, too. Check for phase with the kick. Leave the snap of the snare to the...

Snare mic: usually the shell.

Kick mic: beater-side, in the hole, back a few feet, whatever tone fits the tune.

The room mic is crucial crucial crucial. If you want a White Strips lofi-but-still-hifi sound, use the room mic as your main, compress it and then bring in the close mics. If you want a tighter sound, still use the room mic first, maybe don't compress it, then bring in the close mics louder. My $.02

PS. This yields mono drums, which rock.

[Devlars]

I've not heard of the Recorderman method before...sounds interesting though, thanks for the link.

[cgarges]

Experimentation is one of (or should be) one of the FUN parts of this whole recording thingy.

Oh silly Joel, FUN has no place in a recording studio!

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC