In Search of a Snare!

[astroboy]

Hello everyone!

I received my 1966 Premier 3-piece kit in the mail about a month ago, and it's everything I expected (especially for $300). I like it a whole bunch.However, I'm not really digging the hydraulic heads, and I'm thinking of fitting it all with Renaissance Ambassadors.

Anyway, now I sort of need a snare. I've been playing my friend's Mapex Black Panther maple snare, which I like okay, I guess, but I find the sound to be either too flappy, or to cracky and harsh for my liking, and I can't seem to find a happy medium.

I'd really love a crisp and sensitive, but really rounded and full tone. Something like a Rogers Powertone maybe? I'm no expert, but I think a brass or bronze snare may have the right combination of a crisp sensitive "snarey" attack with a nice warm tone, where short roll type things sound round and full.

I know this isn't metal, but is it an ok snare, and would it do the trick?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... RK:MEWA:IT

(I'm looking to pay under 200. The lower the better, if possible!)

Thanks a whole lot!
Trevor

[chetatkinsdiet]

neat old drum there, but probably not going to do what you want.
I'd shoot more for your initial thought....powertone, ludwig supra, acrolite, or something thereabouts.
If you don't mind new, check out the black dawg by world max. It's about 200 new and sounds amazing. It's basically a tube lug knockoff of the orignal black beauties. I've got one in the 6.5" depth and it smokes my 6.5" supra. It sounds better than my actual Luddy from the 20s!
I love it and can't say enough good things about it.
There're a few dealers around that carry them. You can find a few by searching "world max snare" or probably "black dawg snare". George Lawrence's shop in Ohio has them.
Probably the best deal in a brass shell drum.
later,
m

[cgarges]

Yeah, what chetatkinsdiet said!

I'll put in a big vote for a COB Powertone, although more people are getting hip to them and it's getting more difficult to find one cheap. The Ludwig Acrolytes are also terrific drums with a wide tuning range and are well-suited for use with a variety of heads.

I recently bought a Pork Pie Pork Lite, which is a clear acrylic-shelled drum. I've been very surprised at how big this drum sounds. It's very full and very snarey. The edges are great, so theres lots of sensitivity and tons of crack. Not really much like the old Vistalites that I've heard. Definitley seems like an odd choice, but it's a really a great and versatile drum. GC got the first 300 of these and were selling them tagged at $199. You might want to go play one of those if you can.

Hope this helps.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[drumsound]

I have an old Slingerland mahogany snare that is very similar to the Leedy you linked to. It's definitely not a crisp drum. It's more of a round thuddy tone.

Older (wood) drums tend to have rounder barring edges then more modern drums. This results in much less crack than a modern drum. Leedy, Slingerland and Ludwig drums up to the 60s or so are that way.

[SqueeGees]

EAT THE CHEESE-BURGER ASTROBOY...

[joel hamilton]

I have been really digging the "cake" snares that are made by hand here in brooklyn. Not keller shells! Much cooler.

The barrel stave snare that KC drumworks made was great.

The cake snare seems to be the most versatile. I have a 13x6 that sounds bigger and better than any 14 i have recorded, and we have a GMS 14" here that sounds pretty great as well. Both are maple.

We also have a 60's gretch chrome snare that I dont know what it is but it kinda rules....

[Devlars]

I've found that the skins play just as big a role in the sound as the snare itself. My drummer has one of those crappy pacific snare (16" aluminum) that comes with the beginner sets and depending on the skin you put on it, it will sound drastically different. With Evans hydraulic heads tuned and dampened just so I swear it sounds exactly like Ringos snare!

[Coco]

Usually a thicker shelled snare is more sensitive no? I have an old 14x8 18 ply maple Tama that kills.I paid $300 Cdn for it and it sounds better than my $1000 Ayotte custom made snare. Go figure. I can hit it with my finger and it can be heard very well. Very sensitive. It has lots of girth if you want and can get a nice crack typical of a smaller less robust snare. It has a bit of a 70's vibe to it which I love. I believe it is an Artwood series. I use Remo coated emperor heads on it. The snare sound is a personal thing and having more than one aroung is the way to go, especially for recording.If I could afford it I would have 10. A Noble&Cooley solid shell is on my list.

[chetatkinsdiet]

In talking about snares....well, any other drum i guess, but a thicker shell will be higher pitched. This is pretty much what you want on a rock snare. With the thicker shell, the shell is less resonant though and usually have less of a real warm sound. The thinner shells are more resonant, but seem to sound best...to me anyway....when played in softer settings.
A snare to a drummer is just about the most personal thing there is. You just need to check out a bunch and find out what you like/want in a snare.
.....or just buy a Luddy supra and be done with it....

[marqueemoon]

I have an old Slingerland mahogany snare that is very similar to the Leedy you linked to. It's definitely not a crisp drum. It's more of a round thuddy tone.

Older (wood) drums tend to have rounder barring edges then more modern drums. This results in much less crack than a modern drum. Leedy, Slingerland and Ludwig drums up to the 60s or so are that way.

I have a 60's 6 lug Slingerland with those kind of edges, and I totally agree. It's all about the thud.

I think the Ludwig Acrolite is probably the best value in a "vintage" snare if you're open to the idea of a metal snare. They are incredibly versatile and surprisingly warm sounding. They usually go for $160-$180.

[astroboy]

Thanks very much to everyone for their replies.

I've honed my interest to a vintage (60's, 70s's) metal shell snare that I would most likely equip with Ambassador Renaissance or Fibreskyn heads.
Please help me narrow it down further.

I like the Rogers Powertone, Rogers Dynasonic, Ludwig Acrolite, Ludwig Supraphonic, and the World Max Black Dawg (not vintage, I know).

Here are some auctions I found.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... RK:MEWA:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... RK:MEWA:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... RK:MEWA:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... eName=WDVW

Thank you very much
Trevor

[cgarges]

I'd steer clear of the Dynasonic if for no other reason than the snare mechanism is a pain to deal with.

The Acrolyte is from my favorite period of manufacture. This would be an excellent and versatile drum with either if the heads you mentioned. Tuned on the loose side of medium with a Fiderskyn, it will give you a nice, fat sound reminiscent of Steve Gadd's 70s recordings, particularly those he did with Paul Simon. Tuned higher, it will get you closer to the sound of older James Broiwn recordings.

The Powertone (script logo also being my favorite era) would be a good bet too, although I've not really liked mine with Renaissance heads on it. (It's one of only a couple snares I have that I don't like with Renaissance heads.) I also don't think it would be as versatile as the Acrolyte, but versatility may not be what you want.

All of these drums look to be in good shape and although you can rarely predict the price at which the auction will close, these all look to be within a reasonable ballpark so far.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[chetatkinsdiet]

That 67 supra is going to be expensive...probably closer to $300. The Dynasonic is missing all the stuff that makes it a dynasonic...the snare bracket and snares. To outfit that one, it'd end up costing you an additional $250+ in parts.
The powertone and acrolite look like they might go pretty cheap. I'd go for the acro if it stays under $100. About $150 would be tops I'd think on the powertone. The closer you get to $200, the better a new black dawg gets.
FYI....in case you didn't catch this on the World Max snares....a few years back, it won the snare drum olympics that Not So Modern Drummer puts on every year. Since about 1999 or so, the World Max Black Dawg's either won overall best drum, or placed very, very high in a number of categories.
later,
m

[astroboy]

Thanks for the replies.

The Black Dawg seems really nice, although it may be pushing my budget a little. Does anyone know where I can get it for under 200, if that's possible? If not, I may have to go for a Powertone or Acrolite off of eBay.

How does the tone of the 70's Acrolite (tuned a little on the tighter side) compare to the tone of a script-era Powertone (also tuned a little on the tighter side)? Where does the Black Dawg fit in, tone wise?

Also, a little (a lot) off topic, are these good deals for cymbals?
Zildjian 21" A Vintage Ride, early 60's, lots of wash, used, no logos, no cracks, no keyholing, $150 + shipping.
Zildjian 16" A Custom Projection Crash, used, worn logos, no cracks, no keyholing, $95 + shipping.
Zildjian 16" A Vintage Crash, early 60's, used, no logos, no cracks, no keyholing, $70 + shipping.

Thanks!

[chetatkinsdiet]

The powertone is going to be a bit darker, as it's a brass shell. Actually, the powertone sounds very, very close to a COB Supra. I've owned quite a few acrolites and always thought they were nice snares. I gotta admit that the escalating prices are making them a bit less attractive. Especially when you would probably pay as much for one of them as you do the powertone.
later,
m
I've got all the snares in question here and a few more...ok, a lot more....the black hawg (6.5" version) is turning into my primary snare. That and my Starclassic G Maple are the two 'go-to' snares for me these days. I'm sort of going for a fatter, larger sound that I was a few years back when I was totally into the 4.5-5" depth snares. I've always been partial to these sorts of snares though...some version or knockoff of the Supra, whether it's a real COB supra, ludalloy supra, acrolite, rogers powertone, black beauty or black dawg/hawg/pup. They are the SM57 of snare drums. Possibly not the absolute best for everything, but capable of doing a darn fine job in just about any situation.
I hope this helps....