Ultimate Small Summing Mixer Solution??? ALL PROS CHECK THIS

[sixtoo]

I am a professional user that has had it with trying to compete with the big boys in the home/consumer audio league...and am ready to step up and really make a proper setup, unfortunatly, in terms of space, it really comes down to this, a new (read, real nice old) console that has the features I need, or proper room treatment, and more work done in the digital realm.

My own personal experience is that (for my sound) bouncing digital mixes just sucks. It kills the depth of feild in the stereo spectrum, and sometimes pushes certain instruments back in the mix. I don't know why...and really, don't need to know why. It's not on just my setup either, I have tried numerous platforms and DA conversions, its just that the DA conversion chain on my laptop does't cut it.

I am going back to mixing through a mixer, with a really good compressor and EQ at the end of the chain, running my effects and sampler in sync with the automated outputs of my laptop. I think its a better way to mix your music.

So here is my delemma.
I need a really good summing mixer. One that has 16 line-level inputs, 4 aux's and a stereo insert point for the end of the chain. Preferably with inserts on the lines, but not nessasarily.

ideally I am thinking of the Manley 8x2 or the API8200's with the master module...however, neither of these mixers offers a direct out, or 4 aux's. Is there anything, in terms of space price and quality that can compete with these mixers?

ps: Im not trying to say anything about anyone else's methods of production, its just that summing the mix on my workstation just isin't whats working for me.

thanks in advance.

[PatrickBrown]

Manley says on their site they'll do custom additions. Did you check out the Daking stuff?

[miamidevice]

Howdy, Rob.

Say "hi" to the roommates.

If you're going to spend that kind of money on something, the best bet is probably just to run some mixes through a couple things and see if anything jumps out. You might want to keep an eye out for an older Studer broadcast board - Juan Maclean (who used to frequent this board) got one to do exactly what you're looking for and seems stoked about it. I think it's the 961 or 962, but I could be wrong...

m. (catano)

[sixtoo]

hey paddy:

yeah, I actually hit off manley about it, but really, Im not quite ready to jump in for 12g's if I can find something more suitable.

Hey Mike: yeah, I have actually tried out both the units, and both sound excellent (Im personally more into the rawness of the API than the skilky feel of the Manley...) but this is exactly the kind of advice I'm looking for, if I could find a small broadcast console with a distinct sound, especially when hit hard (and preferrably one that would fit in my 19" rack) with inserts and directs I would be quite happy. I actually moved out of the frathouse, and am now living with my girlie girl...but Ill tell the captains you said hi.

anyone?

[soundguy]

six-

can you build something yourself?

I was in the same predicament as you and now Im building a mixer for myself. Its a huge pain, but you can get it the way you want it. A 16 channel mixer is really a tall order, if you can at all manage to construct it yourself, you'll be way better off. A real API console like that is gonna cost serious dollars and the line mixer just doesnt have the features. Speck I think makes a line mixer, however Ive never heard it.

dave

[sixtoo]

hey soundguy....

I really wish I could build something myself....but I think it would really take some expensive components (especially the opamp and eq sections that it would need) and the amount of time & experinece that I simply don't have. All line level or maybe

ideally....

8 line channels with good eq's and inserts and direct outs (for instruments/samplers)
8 line channels with no eq's (from my digital setup)
2 really good mic preamp channels (whatever, theres a million boxes for this)
4 aux sends per channel...
2 outs with inserts.

too much for me to take on.

6.dos

[soundguy]

Im definitley building a ghetto mixer compared to what you need there, but if you build it yourself there s a lot of customizing you can do. For instance, do you REALLY need 4 aux's per channel? Can you instead get away with a half normalled patch bay with a lot of mults to pull signal from? Do you NEED EQ on the board? Can you get away with say, some api lunchboxes?

I wish I had some better advice, I wound up building my own after trying to buy something, there just isnt really a lot that is affordable so far as discrete consoles are concerned.

dave

[@?,*???&?]

You can build a modular console with gear from Speck.

www.speck.com

[Professor]

Trouble with an old broadcast deck is that you won't get the number of auxes you are looking for. I feel bad since I have the Crest XR-24 sitting in a rack for live recording but I've not tested it for that kind of mix down. It is way below the Manley in price, since it lists at $2500 for eight mono and eight stereo channels (24 inputs with line, mic-pre & phantom), though it has 6 auxes (1&2 are level pan), 4 busses pluss mono plus mix, with inserts everywhere and really solid build in a rack sized box. I just haven't done critical mixing on it yet, just a few live musicals through some crappy house PA speakers. I think it would be worth a listen - the saved money could be put to work on your outboard gear.
Midas also has the rackmounted Venice consoles available but I think only the 8channel will rackmount. That one is up around the $3500 mark, I think.
After that I was about to suggest the Oram Octa-Fade kit, and I just went to the website and saw the 'deal of the century' or at least that is how it's listed. An eight channel Trident rackmount mixer with 5 auxes per channel, nice EQ section and expandable to be your 16-channel board. It will have a list price of 4995 but they are allowing pre-orders to go in for $1995!!! Look at this thing, it's got your name written all over it. www.oram.co.uk
Really, I don't work for them. I talked with John a bit at the LA AES convention about putting a Series 24 in the school studio but the pricing just wouldn't fit. I have to really consider this little mixer pretty seriously though. Figures I would see it mere hours after tearing apart the Argosy console and rearranging the desk to fit the gear we presently have. Now I want another piece right up front and center. Damn.

-Jeremy

[Professor]

Oh I was also going to suggest looking into a TAC Bullet which is a real nice sounding board except for a slightly noisy preamp but they go cheap on eBay, and could be a good starting point for you. We had one in the electronic music lab where I was an undergrad and I always loved the sound quality.
But then I saw that Trident.
The octafade is pretty hip too and worth a peek.

-Jeremy

[chemicalpink]

keep your eye out for a ADM 770 series console the first half of
them made used API opamps and the later ones used the ADM
"copy" you can also get a 2400 or 3200 series desk and yank
the chips out of it, like I did, I have a very moded 40 channel
that sounds super rad. there is also that dangerous 2-bus
that was in tape op, and some tube deal that I saw in the back
of MIX can't remember the name. but the problem your having
is very common indeed, even know all the big guys use protools
sessions they still mix through a huge billon dollar desk for alot
of reasons like the sound quality after all, a computer mixes
the shit together like a expensive calculator, but also so they
can use all their billon dollar outboard stuff, I don't think people
will be throwing away their fairchilds and pultecs any time
soon, so all the weirdo's that refuse to mix digital will be rockin'
for a good long time! A-MEN, HALLALUULLA and your not going
to get all those auxes and crap your just gonna have to deal with it,
you either get sound (discrete) or a bunch of auxes, buss and
all that, ohyeh, if your gonna get anything more then 5 or 10 years
old be ready to rip it apart and work on it alot, welcome to vintage
good luck.

[marqueemoon]

After that I was about to suggest the Oram Octa-Fade kit, and I just went to the website and saw the 'deal of the century' or at least that is how it's listed. An eight channel Trident rackmount mixer with 5 auxes per channel, nice EQ section and expandable to be your 16-channel board. It will have a list price of 4995 but they are allowing pre-orders to go in for $1995!!! -Jeremy

That would be the S100, not the Octafade.

[Professor]

Yep, I went to look at the Oram Octafade and saw the Trident S-100 on the main page. Sorry I didn't give the model number in my haste.

Almost forgot, there is also that TL Audio piece distributed by HHB called the Tube Tracker. That's another eight channel rack mounted, linkable board. Only two aux sends on that one, but it is a rackmount tube console that might not be a Manley, but it has some of those key features.

-Jeremy

[MoreSpaceEcho]

yeah, from my limited time with it, the TL tube tracker definitely added some 'analog goodness' compared to mixing in the box. routing-wise it's not very flexible though, there's no assigning anything to the 2 buss, all the channels are routed there automatically...makes any kind of dub mixing pretty impossible. anyway, it has direct outs and inserts on each channel, and the eq is ok but not great. you can link 'em, 2 would set you back about 6-7 grand. i personally don't think mixing on the computer sounds 7 grand worse, but i'm broke

-scott

[sonariste]

did you try the midas venice?

seems like it may be just what you want.