recording with 2 mics

[brad24bit]

Anyone have experience recording rock bands with just 2 mics? I'm looking to do this since i have the mobile gear to do it, a couple matched pairs of omni mics, schneider disk(a jecklin type disk) stereo preamp, a/d converter, and a 2 track recorder. I know this is more of a classical or jazz technique, but i haven't heard of anyone doing this for rock music. I think it would be great for punk bands for that raw live feel of them just playing in a room. I don't know i'm probably crazy but i think i'm gonna try it and see if there are any bands wanting to try this out. Anybody have experience with this? Any do's and don'ts?

Thanks

Brad

[dokushoka]

I actually do a lot of this, and I really quite like it. The only thing is that your room really needs to sound great. Also, you'll have to put a ton of time into drum tuning and placement. Its pretty rewarding when you get it right though. You might try using a nice PA, getting a good mix on that, then stereo micing the PA speakers along with everything else.

[spectralgrey]

I'll do one mic recording if I just want to lay down an idea. I never do it for final recording, but sometimes it ends up sounding good. It's all about the placement. If you get the mics in just the right spots, you'll get the right sound. instead of having a board of faders to move, you'll just have to angle the mics themselves to achieve the right balance. want less bass? move the mic away from the bass.

I'd like to explore this more too. It's a fun challenge, and gives an insight into how records were made long ago...(there's a reason why drummers are always in the back!)

[bigtoe]

it always sounds like a boombox or something to me. even with 4011's. of course the live sound itself usually is less than stellar when i try it.

Mike

[Punkity]

I've done it in the past. I've tried to be all precious about it (matched pair of Schoeps, good mobile preams, etc) but it really doesn't work out well, mostly due to the horrible acoustics of the venues, crappy PA, and the distain/ignorance for tone most punk/H.C. bands have.

However, I've found that a completely unmatched pair of mics works out much better. The best combination I found is an AKG C1000 and an AKG D-112 (for multiple reasons not excluding not having to worry so much about them getting them smashed). I don't bother with placement for a stereo image--but do get the diaphrams right next to each other. They are both going to sound like schmat by themselves (just like the matched pair did), but will be schmatty in different ways. EQ out the problems from each track seperately, compress the dynamic perhaps, bring them together, and try to fill in the holes by backing off the de-schmatting EQ in spots.

If you want, you can pan them differently. You will have an psudeo-stereo sound given the different tones from the mics and the different EQ treatment. I usually don't because I always end up compressing one of the tracks. It just doesn't sound right to me to have the left side compressed alone.

However, if you are able to record in a venue with good acoustics, a FOH engineer that knows what is going on, a good-to-great P.A., and a band that is manical about tone, by all means give the more precious recording style a shot.

[Punkity]

Oops. I re-read your first post Brad24bit, and realized that you are not talking about live recording. I've got to finish my coffee before I start answering these things.

Yes, do try recording like you have proposed. If you do want to do the Jecklin disk style go for it, but I would be more inclined to do a wider-spaced omni set-up. I've found that it will give you a better stereo field in a loud music situation, while a Jecklin disk thing will pretty much sound like mono. Also try an ORTF setup (my personal favorite).

If you do use the wider omni style, get absolutely crazy with a tape measure. It will be an uphill battle trying to get the punch required for rock or punk anyway and things like bass or kick will turn into a soft, pillowy cloud of sound in no time flat.

[Devlars]

Anyone have experience recording rock bands with just 2 mics? I'm looking to do this since i have the mobile gear to do it, a couple matched pairs of omni mics, schneider disk(a jecklin type disk) stereo preamp, a/d converter, and a 2 track recorder. I know this is more of a classical or jazz technique, but i haven't heard of anyone doing this for rock music. I think it would be great for punk bands for that raw live feel of them just playing in a room. I don't know i'm probably crazy but i think i'm gonna try it and see if there are any bands wanting to try this out. Anybody have experience with this? Any do's and don'ts?

Thanks

Brad

Well will you be doing this at a venue? Is it going to be in a room that you know sounds good for live music? Will the band take particular time and care to balance themselves and create a workable tone?

These are all questions that need to be asked in order to give you the best possible advice as to how to record the wqy in which you've described. A friends band recently recorded themselves at a local venue, Mac's Bar in Lansing MI, with a pair of MC-012s X-Y'd in the center of the room facing the band and it doesn't sound half bad.

When you record this way it really is more about the players balancing themselves and creating a good sound to record (as it SHOULD be all the time) since an engineer has less control of the individual instruments. Just recently I had a session with a friend recording lots of percussion and some DIY drum sounds and the entire thing was done with a pair of LDCs in X-Y. When a new instrument or sound was being recorded we would listen to it in the cans first and adjust it accordingly, "move that cymbal back further and don't it as hard" "get closer with the shaker but close your hand around it more" etc. You can try all the mics and setups in the world but it's all about the source (performance) being good.

[swelle]

I just did this recently in a practice space with great results. Not the best gear: two unmatched Marshall mics (yes, the 2001 and 603S set) into a M-Audio DMP3 preamp and then an old Sony DAT deck.

We put the two PA wedge monitors on a guitar case in front of the kick drum, then put the mics on a stereo bar about four feet out and four feet off the ground, with the bass cab behind the drummer and a guitar amp on either side of the kit.

It sounded really good - the vocals were pretty distorted (in the best way) and the kick and snare came through clean and clear. The bass probably suffered the most (sorta muddy), but it was pretty punk rock and didn't matter all that much. The room is really good though: 20 x 16, high ceilings, old acoustic tiles on all four walls, and a skylight above the center.

Alot of early blues and rockabilly recordings were done with one or two mics, albeit really good ones. Look for old pictures of Owen Bradley Nashville studio to see how they set it up. [/u]