Throwing in the towel?

[Theron D]

I have a degree in EE, and have found myself in the last few years steering the other way towards being a studio engineer and producing. After 10 years of listening to others and living a narrow minded sleep walking corporate life, I've come to the conclusion that this is what I am supposed to do.

EE is a great degree to have no matter what direction you decide to steer. If you are having doubts about music and the direction that recording industry is headed, then maybe you should take some time off and think it over. If you wake up every morning obsessed with music like I am, have lost girlfriends because of this, but just dont give a f^&k because you know this is what you are supposed to do then stick it out for the long run. Remember, this is no trial run....


TD

[A.David.MacKinnon]

I'm starting to realize that given the changes in and current state of the recording/music industry there's not much of a bright future.

I hate to break it to you but it's never been much of a bright future. The only thing you can count on is lots of work for little pay. If you get lucky (and luck plays just as big a part or the recording world as it does in the rest of the music world) you'll get a break but all that will mean is even more work for a little more money. The only reason to do it is love and there's nothing wrong with realizing you don't love it enough to starve for. Be a hobbyist.

[Knights Who Say Neve]

I've been in your mental shoes here. Not exactly but pretty close.

Do what you love. If that means leaving San Francisco do it. OTOH you might like building gear...and at least you'll have a hand in. If the financial situation eases in a few years you'll be there to seize the opportunity. Don't give up. You have to eat and pay rent. That's life. But keep you hand in somehow. Don't walk away from what you WANT to do.

[yardleyone]

man there is really somethign to be said for the enojyment that you can get out of a pure hobby. And that is especially true of recording. Do it all the time, only now without pressure. Just wholey for the pleasure of it.

[kayagum]

i woudnt throw in the towel. just build up your OWN studio and dont worry about working for someone elses. build up a list of clients that are respectable and sound good . develop your own sound and people will come to your for it if you have something.

Hey, I've been trying to make that happen, but I can barely afford to eat, let alone rent a space and build a proper studio. And I'm getting clients, but the way things are going here in SF, people don't want to pay for engineering when they can just get a computer and a pro tools rig. An engineer, to many people out here, seems like an extraneous and unnecessary expense. Folks barely want to pay for studio time (despite the fact that it's so cheap that it's putting studio after studio out of business). There are bands and artist to work with who want and appreciate the value of a good engineer, but the bands are few and the engineers are many. Much of the work goes to established engineers...little folks like me pick up scraps here and there. Certainly not enough to eke out a living. Homeless people on General Assistance make more than I do from engineering. I shit you not.

Really...if it was that easy, I wouldn't be talking about throwing in the towel

Consider moving to another city. SF is a bitch to stay afloat financially, and IMHO (I do travel to SF regularly for business) there are much better cities for music than the Bay Area. [/ducks] To name a few: Chicago, Twin Cities, DC, SeaTacOly, Portland, Austin.... even Alburquerque (Shins) and Boise (Built to Spill) can have decent music- and who woulda thunk about Omaha?!

And, don't be discouraged to pursue a day job career. 10 years ago, I tried to do theater work, and temped to cover rent. Well, guess what- the day job evolved into better and better permanent jobs, allowing me to pay for recording equipment. I still work on projects, but it's a lot more fun to be able to afford to pick and choose gigs. Some studio owners might not like me doing my thing, but they wouldn't be able to financially recover the amount of hours it takes to put together a full-on theater sound design.

Don't be afraid to pursue multiple interests- in fact, by not obsessing over any particular path, you may actually come out ahead on ALL of them.

[spectralgrey]

I wouldn't call myself particularly knowledgable about making it in the recording industry, but my theory is that it is best to be "a big fish in a small pond." If you decide to continue pursuing recording as a career, find a smaller college town with good music, but fewer studios and a lower cost of living. If not, it can be very rewarding to simply record as a hobby. You can really let the creativity flow when you're not under any business pressures.

[Moon Unit]

Consider moving to another city. SF is a bitch to stay afloat financially, and IMHO (I do travel to SF regularly for business) there are much better cities for music than the Bay Area. [/ducks] To name a few: Chicago . . .

Chicago is pretty tough, too. Besides, we have enough guys barely staying afloat doing the recording thing.

I'd say go ahead and chase after your dream . . . as long as that's not in the Chicago metro area. Seriously, though, I think it's a great idea to do the Electrical Engineering thing. You're hedging your bets and giving yourself a safety net.

[SeventhCircle]

You might want to consider a 2 year program as well, especially if you're primarily interested in playing around with audio equipment. Really, I think anyone involved with the technical aspects of audio needs to have at least a rudimentary understanding of electronics, even if you decide to forge ahead with your recording career. A decent associates program will equip you with the basics, plus enhance your employability. I'm afraid I don't know of any good programs in the Bay Area, however. Anybody been to DeVry?

[McQ]

keep working at it..dont quit!
the salary for a basic EE is 45k-55k at the highest..and those jobs want a few years of experience to boot..i think..

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but it hasn't been that low for about 10 years. In actuality, the current average total compensation (base salary plus perks) for less than 1 year of experience is approx. $70k/year. Let's not discourage the lad needlessly...

BTW, I can tell you from first hand experience, either the EE curriculum (like my son's currently enrolled) or physics (my undergrad work) are great general-purpose degree programs...allowing you to pick and choose from a HUGE array of post-grad options.

Clarifying in Austin,
McQ

[I'm Painting Again]

keep working at it..dont quit!
the salary for a basic EE is 45k-55k at the highest..and those jobs want a few years of experience to boot..i think..

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but it hasn't been that low for about 10 years. In actuality, the current average total compensation (base salary plus perks) for less than 1 year of experience is approx. $70k/year. Let's not discourage the lad needlessly...

BTW, I can tell you from first hand experience, either the EE curriculum (like my son's currently enrolled) or physics (my undergrad work) are great general-purpose degree programs...allowing you to pick and choose from a HUGE array of post-grad options.

Clarifying in Austin,
McQ

totally agree..physics is especially great for rocking the MCAT in order to get into a great med school..my friend was a physics major in Albany and got into Yale Med that way..umm..i dont want to discourage..i got that figure from salary.com..dont know how accurate they are..it seems not too many people land a 70k job 6 months out of undergraduate school..your probably right..i wouldn't know exactly..

I'm not saying its not a good thing to do..just suggesting the benefit of exploring other options and thinking it through..

[McQ]

...i got that figure from salary.com..dont know how accurate they are...

Clearly the figures there are out of step with current facts within the engineering community (see link below).

...it seems not too many people land a 70k job 6 months out of undergraduate school..your probably right..i wouldn't know exactly..

It may be unheard of in other professions (it's paltry compared to many), but it's not out-of-line here...and that $70k figure is an average. For current info (Summer '04), check out: http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/Arti ... /8673.html (I don't know if you can get to the data breakdown or not).
In '92 (my last year in corporate America), I was hiring fresh-outs for around $50k. This new data seems consistent with that experience, what my corporate collegues are currently telling me and assuming a miserly 2.8% per annum increase.

I'm not saying its not a good thing to do..just suggesting the benefit of exploring other options and thinking it through..

I didn't think so and, FWIW, I agree with your urging to explore all options. However, whether it's Electronic Engineering or Recording "engineering", if gobs'o'money is your goal, you'd do best to choose some other career...

Out of options in Austin,
McQ

[Family Hoof]

This is an interesting post but there's something I can't keep quiet about here. Sorry if it seems like an off topic rant...

EE is not easy! Everyone is talking about it like it's something you can just do for the hell of it and suddenly have a new career. No! Just like recording school or any type of education really, you only get what you put into it. Seriously, you can go for all four years, get good grades, graduate and not know jack shit about applying the knowlege you've acquired... if you remember any of it.
I enrolled in a program with the same same mindset of BACKUP PLAN i.e. tech work and design/build gear. Now I'm almost half way through a BS in EET and about to quit (and don't you dare tell me not to like everyone else has). Sure I have a great GPA, but do I understand any of it? No! I hate it. I'm terrible with calculus (and math in general, really), and I'm not motivated or disciplined enough to spend all of my free time consuming this stuff the way I do with other such subjects (i.e. recording, computers, music). This type of practice is necessary in order to make it a skill - something that's part of your immediate mental vocabulary.
I have a theory that one of the reasons so many electronic products are shit is because the engineers are simply people who plug and chug to a spec without really giving a shit and only went to school for EE in order to make a lot of $. I see it in my classmates. I don't want to be responsible. I don't want to be in a corporate environment devoid of passion, pride, and ART.
So that said, what is my current backup plan you might ask? Teaching... and possibly computer tech support.

P.S. While we're talking about electricity union electricians make good dough, at least the ones I know. Starting off as an apprentice you can make as much as any dead end job and you won't pay tuition for this type of training.

[aurelialuz]

P.S. While we're talking about electricity union electricians make good dough, at least the ones I know. Starting off as an apprentice you can make as much as any dead end job and you won't pay tuition for this type of training.

yeah, that's a good way to look at it, but it's seven years beholden. still better than 10-20k in loans.

[robotboy75]

I'd imagine that Electrical Engineers are usually in high demand, particularly in the area where you are living. Berkeley is also one of the best engineering schools in the country and the price really can't be beat. If you had a BS from there, I think you would be in very good shape (even 10-20k in loans is not that much when you compare salary ranges of an EE to the average dead end job). In other words: You would make it back fast.

That said, it does require a lot of persistance and a reevaluation of how you spend your free time. You have to think about whether or not you like the related subjects (Physics, Calculus, etc.) in order to devote that much attention to them. An awful lot of electrical engineering is digital design at this point too. Most high end analog audio stuff is not really state of the art at this point (it's "vintage"). I think most EE degrees include classes on microprocessor programming (assembly language), digital circuit design, probably some high level computer language stuff, etc. So, you should think about whether or not you want to study how computers work too.

A lot of EE careers are probably pretty stuffy too. I know people in my area that work for various defense contractors and I'm not sure that I would want to do that for any length of time. One big advantage of being a professional of whatever kind, though, is that you would be making a lot more money, which would make it easier to pursue recording purely for the pleasure of doing it.

Maybe you should try taking a single class one semester as a non-degree student (or something) and see if you like it.

[bigtoe]

i went for an EE thing last year but then my relationship took a shit and had to deal with that. i found it really boring - the exact opposite of recording music. it's not for me but i'll take classes again for practical reasons.

"If I'm not I'll be a 40 year old, overeducated administrative assistant."

I felt just like you at 28.

One thing i've figured out in the last year is i love recording music and i love musicians. I have a day job. I'm happiest at it when i have 3 hours sleep in two days and a handful good takes from the past couple nights. If i'm 50 and working at Wendy's i don't mind anymore as long as i'm micing a band up or mixing something down after making the chili.

the Type A personalities i see in a lot of studio owners and engineers just kinda turns me off. i look at the day job as a beeg plus in not having to deal with em.

good luck in what you decide. i think it matters not much. pick a road and keep recording if you love it.

Mike