Going to be tracking a noise guy

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operator_tape
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Going to be tracking a noise guy

Post by operator_tape » Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:05 pm

Doez anyone have any recomendations on what to be careful with when tracking a guy that will be making noise? Its in the vein of Merzbow, very choatic stuff. I don't want him to overload my A/D and break them. Also he wants to use my equipment to track everything, should I have loud distorted noise go through my tube amp. I heard somewhere that its really no good for the circutry to sent in feedback and such through a amp. Any suggestions would be helpful.

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rob@SigmaDelta
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Re: Going to be tracking a noise guy

Post by rob@SigmaDelta » Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:34 pm

break your AD by overloading it?

ive never heard that one before.

Set the gain really low and stick a limiter before the preamp.
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Re: Going to be tracking a noise guy

Post by wing » Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:00 pm

the worst overloading an A/D converter could do is just cause a clipping sound... but hey, it's a noise project, so that might work out in its favor!

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Re: Going to be tracking a noise guy

Post by Mark Alan Miller » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:06 pm

Agreed with the above responses.
Additionally, recording/micing 'noise' is pretty much the same as recording/micing anything. Position the mics/take the D.I. and be cautious in how and where you set your gain staging. You should be just as safe as recording a loud Marshall stack.
he took a duck in the face at two and hundred fifty knots.

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Re: Going to be tracking a noise guy

Post by rob@SigmaDelta » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:50 pm

I just realized I said BEFORE the preamp. was pre-occupied studying chess....

after, duh.
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Re: Going to be tracking a noise guy

Post by Frost » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:53 pm

About the only things you can break are a mic (choose sensible mics for loud sounds) or a speaker by sending it DC. this can happen from noise machines going Direct, but not from a mic. Just low cut all the DI'd instruments at 30 to protect your speakers.

Frost

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Re: Going to be tracking a noise guy

Post by Knights Who Say Neve » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:37 pm

I have seen a noise guy DESTROY an amp, just by the signal he
was running through it. He didn't pay for the damage, either.

I later saw the same guy blow the tweeters out on a PA- and not pay for it.

So if he's using your amp and equipment, make sure he's willing to pay for damage. Some noise people get off on damaging other people's equipment. Not saying that this guy is like that, but better safe than sorry.

I also agree with the other posts. Definately use dynamic mics and stick a limiter somewhere between the mic and the converter, for your piece of mind if nothing else.

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Re: Going to be tracking a noise guy

Post by Mark Alan Miller » Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:26 am

Heck, If I was a noise guy and wanted to do maclicious damage, I'd just run D.C. into everything. :)

Yes, them comments about low cuts and perhaps an agreement about speaker damage are warranted and wise.
he took a duck in the face at two and hundred fifty knots.

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Re: Going to be tracking a noise guy

Post by I'm Painting Again » Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:36 am

i do a lot of work with noise..i like a mix of condenser and dynamic mics..i like to track and mix listening more with my body than with my ears if you know what i mean..understand the guys pov on what hes doing as well as you can..subs are good to track and mix with for this genre i find..the rest is easy put the mics up and you cant go too wrong..hard noise is the the most zen of all rockforms..

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Re: Going to be tracking a noise guy

Post by awolski » Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:58 am

Ribbon mics are nice for noise but you gotta be careful.

I have an Octava ML52-2 ribbon mic and it is really great for recording noise. You can capture the carnage and a little brightness on top without so much really piercing midrange like you might get with some condensors. It sounds really great, if you can mic noise in a controlled situation and not blow up your favorite ribbon (maybe a limiter could go between the artist's gear and the amp you are miking - I do that at home sometimes)

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Re: Going to be tracking a noise guy

Post by object88 » Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:03 am

Frost wrote:Just low cut all the DI'd instruments at 30 to protect your speakers.
This may be detrimental to the noise musician's concept-- artists like Lustmord (OK, more ambient than noise) thrive on earth-shaking low frequencies, like down in the 10Hz range. If it's possible, I'd low-cut your monitors, but track the full frequency. Then, when mixing, play back on a system you feel comfortable can handle the low frequencies at a safe volume.

This is, or course, all assuming that said noise musician wants to go that low.

Speaking as a noise musician myself, I have blown out a PA during a performance. The feedback loop sent a massive signal into the power amp, which blew out the PA speaker. Of course, I owned the whole dang setup, so all damages came out of my pocket. And I've learned my lesson-- now my PA speakers are rated far above the power amp's max output.

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Re: Going to be tracking a noise guy

Post by Knights Who Say Neve » Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:05 am

[quote="BEARD_OF_BEES"]hard noise is the the most zen of all rockforms..[/quote]

Very true- there's peace in the center of the hurricane...

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Re: Going to be tracking a noise guy

Post by Frost » Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:13 am

object88 wrote:
Frost wrote:Just low cut all the DI'd instruments at 30 to protect your speakers.
And I've learned my lesson-- now my PA speakers are rated far above the power amp's max output.
This wont help you much. Its really hard to blow out a speaker with too much power. Overpowering usually makes speakers last longer than underpowering. Yes, you can just blow the doors off of a speaker with too much power but what usually breaks a speaker is square waves played loud, clipped waves (these are also square), heat from long term excursion... there are always exceptions but I wouldnt rely on power ratings to protect myself.

Frost

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Re: Going to be tracking a noise guy

Post by object88 » Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:26 am

Frost wrote:Its really hard to blow out a speaker with too much power. Overpowering usually makes speakers last longer than underpowering. Yes, you can just blow the doors off of a speaker with too much power but what usually breaks a speaker is square waves played loud, clipped waves (these are also square), heat from long term excursion... there are always exceptions but I wouldnt rely on power ratings to protect myself.
I've heard about "underpowering" being a danger to a speaker, but honestly, I don't understand it. Can you explain why it's dangerous?

In my particular case, I figure I sent something like ~150W through a ~75W speaker. I'm pretty sure I blew the fuck out of it. The speaker blew out almost instantly (i.e., I only had sound for about a second), so I don't think it was long-term excursion. In a post-mortem autopsy, the speaker coil was making a grinding sound as I manually flexed the cone.

But I do understand the threat of prolonged square-wave signals. Bad gnus, bears. :)

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Re: Going to be tracking a noise guy

Post by telepathy » Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:11 pm

I record, and perform noise myself (http://www.onewaydown.com), and while I like to DI stuff, most of the time, certain kinds of noise (especially analog electronics, home-brew synths, and circuit-bent stuff) sound FANTASTIC through tube amps. by and large, I would imagine most noise artists have an idea of what kind of sounds they DON'T want ... i.e., through an amp or direct, reverb/no reverb, and as the engineer you should try to get as much on tape as you can, without damaging your gear, of course. by all means, don't cut ANYTHING that you send to tape ... if you need to taper the low end for your monitors, do that, but if the person is used to cranking an amp (or a full-frequency PA setup) to get that visceral low-end when playing live, chances are he/she is going to be confused when at least some of that doesn't make it to tape.

also, go with VERY LITTLE bus compression on the mix. aside from limiting the inputs, wait until the mastering stage before letting any serious across-the-board compressing happen ... I haven't heard much "noise" stuff that doesn't make serious use of dynamics, so be careful trying to preserve that.

another thing, if you can .... go check some of this guy's stuff out live, and see what you're going for with it.
get up with it

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