overheads....sm57's!!!

[flames]

i know there's been discussion of this before, but i wanted to share my experience from this weekend's session. i'm recording a LOUD (i mean friggin LOUD) punk band in a super small room (about 14 x14). it's a 4-piece: drums, bass, 2 guitars (gibson/gretch + marshall staxx), and i did my best to isolate the amps using macgyver skills for homemade gobos, since i insist on recording instruments live.

so a couple of weeks ago i did a couple songs for them in this room, and i used my regular drum setup: akg d112 for kik, chinese LD condenser (superlux) overhead and an SM57 on the snare for some emphasis. it sounded great on it's own (as it usually does - good drummer, and i spent lots of time tuning), but with the band playing, there was so much bass & guitar leaking into that overhead that when it came time to mix, i really had my hands tied, and was left with very few options (i wound up using some eq and a compressor, but i knew it wasn't all it could be).

so back again this weekend for a full session. this time i decided to ditch the condenser and go with dynamic mics for overhead, figuring it wouldn't be so sensitive to all the other instruments that it's not pointing towards. this time tho, i opted for two overheads (left & right) since i knew one dynamic wouldn't be able to handle all the nuances of the cymbals and toms. so, along with the same d112 on kik and sm57 on snare, i now had two more 57's as overheads.....lemme tell you, an absolutely incredible drum sound! no it's not as airy and open as i generally like (nor mono, as i usually prefer), but it was a matter of playing to the stregths and weaknesses of the room and situation - the overcramped room and way loud amps would never allow for an open, airy drum sound. instead it's got more of that 70's dead room sound (which works perfectly for the super fast heavy music they play) - it cuts thru, and there's almost no leakage (i still can't beleive how isolated thay are).

so sm57's as overheads are definitely now a new option i will consider when given an un-ideal recording environment - and since i'm a travelling engineer, they're ALL un-ideal.

[Al]

Good stuff, i like you're style, 57's are the ultimate saviour... although some people think they're the devil.

[Milkmansound]

I used to use 57's for that same purpose to record my band in college in our tiny practice space. I just had one hanging from the ceiling on a cable over the drummer. Not bad! I actually think that dead sound is kind of cool for certain applications - weird fake progressive rock is one of those - and I guess loud punk is too. Sm57's rule! (of course back then, they were all I had)

[eeldip]

if you want to say "punk rock", aim a 57 at a kit. there are other ways to say "punk rock". but the language of "punk rock" has largely been created by people who pointed 57s at drum kits.

i really love taking a single 57, aiming it at a kit at head height about 5 feet back from the kick drum. aimed at the snare.

its a cool sound, it sounds eerily familiar. cause it is.

[Kevin Kitchel]

triggering everything, even the tambourine is the new punk. thankyou.

[trashy]

there are other ways to say "punk rock".

[punjk'rak] That's really the only way...

[Rigsby]

I've had great results from 4 57s on kit a few years ago.. 2 OHs, snare, kick. Great (though very loud) and balanced drummer ...admittedly with a ?3000 3 week old drum kit.

[coniferouspine]

Looks like people seem to be saying that it works really well with loud drummers...the only time I've ever done it was playing loud-as-hell Ludwig Vistalites set up in a public mens' room (lots of tile) in a University Student Center...recorded over Christmas break while the building was locked of course...snuck in using a key from the college radio station...pretty punk i guess

[Disposable]

I don't have SM57's...
I've got tons of crap mics though,
And always record my crappy punk rock with crappy dynamic mics.

Well, I do also have a crappy old school Radio Shack Condenser,
But I usually use dynamics.

[Rigsby]

Looks like people seem to be saying that it works really well with loud drummers...the only time I've ever done it was playing loud-as-hell Ludwig Vistalites set up in a public mens' room (lots of tile) in a University Student Center...recorded over Christmas break while the building was locked of course...snuck in using a key from the college radio station...pretty punk i guess

Wow, i'd like to hear the reverb on that. Any Mp3s?

[Moon Unit]

I think 57's sound like ass on overheads. People who use them that way should be taken out and shot.

[nacho459]

i love 57's (or actually 545's) as overheads as well.
in a live situation where there are no condensers i choose the 57's.

ok, so is there any sonic difference between the 57 & 545, or is it just the color and switch?

[telepathy]

(I'd also like to hear more about 545's.)

one of the best drum sounds I ever got (in a dead little room, with a loud electric jazz/fusion band) was a D112 on the kick, 57 on the snare, and XY'd 58's overhead, SUBMIXED to one track of an old Tascam 244 cassette machine ... saxophone, Rhodes, and bass DI on the other three tracks. tracked with no compression (compressed the fuck out of everything in mastering, of course). ultra ghetto, but I couldn't believe how good the whole thing sounded. rules are figments. I've since done the 57's/58's-as-overheads thing in similar situations and it always surprises me ... I still expect it to suck, but as you described, it works great.

[greatmagnet]

A lot of folks give the 57 a bad rap (and the D112 as well), but I very firmly believe in that rant Fletcher gives on the Mercenary site that the 57 is the ultimate mic insofar as that if you're in a rush and have no time to experiment, it will for the most part sound pretty much like the instrument you're putting it in front of without a lot of runaround. I did not come to this conclusion by reading Fletcher's quote. I came to that conclusion by accidentally or intentionally trying the 57 on various shit over the last couple of years and liking it A LOT even though I really didn't expect to. Sorry if that sounded really pretentious...it's TRUE though! Serious!

I've never used 'em on overs, but I'd be curious to try. I honestly think you could probably get away with using a 57 on every single source on an entire record and make a kickass sounding record!

Like, for example, the absolute best acoustic guitar sounds I ever get is from a stereo pair of 57s. Consistently. There seems to be this unwritten rule that when you record something like cymbals or acoustic guitar or shit like that you have to have some kind of condenser mic on ther to get it all sparkly sounding. NOT TRUE!!! In fact, sometimes I feel like condenser work against you in the way they hype the transients and ignore the decay of the piucked note. Try your dynamics...you might be surprised. They are supposed to sound coarse and brutish, right? Not really. If you've got a pre that's good for crankin' it up loud without a lot of noise, you'd be fucking amazed by the amount of detail and high-end sizzle you can pull out of a 57, D112, 609, or what have ya. Those mics are totally go-to!

Had to comment. They've saved my butt many times. Bear in mind I'm no super-pro and have only been at this a few years, BUT...I know what sounds good to me and stacks up well in the mix. I use my ears and that's good enough for me I guess you could say. So, I don't mean to come off like some low-budget know-it-all if you get my drift.