Non-profit project label idea...

[phait]

Before I get into this I want to state my motivations for this idea, and the reason I'm posting here is of course to see if my head isn't already up my ass and that I should be doing something else with my time, and your advice. I checked out a few label threads here, and a recording-for-charity thread (which got me thinking), but haven't seen anything about non-profit labels.

I'm the kind of person who has a few creative project ideas in mind, always interested in seeing them through, but tackle them one at a time. Right now I have 2 one-man music projects, one of which I'm working on now with a 2005 album. I also have intentions of doing some DVD work, like an indie-film or art-music film. My projects would be released in small quantities for now, like runs of 300 or so (why run 5,000 if there there isn't justifiable demand?).

Now, housing my projects under one name feels like a good idea. Having a label name can help with reputation, distribution and promotion. While primarily this project label (if started) would house my own projects for some time, I have thought about expanding a little bit a few years down the road to helping out local artists. Maybe some can't find a good label home because a label won't accept them for whatever reason, or maybe they charge and charge more than the artist can afford.

There are 2 idea models for my project label. One is non-profit, the second is a small fee. But the point is this would not be a full-fledged business with income, which would be pretentious of me anyway. (If I did want to go that route though, I'd get a small business degree). Anyways, the fee would cover label website maintenance costs. The site would host the artists and their projects, either under a general "Artists" page, and/or with their own sub-sites. I also thought about a business license, even though the primary intention is not of a business - I could get tax writeoffs for supplies and needed purchases. Or maybe a license wouldn't be justified.

A related idea is to take any fees, and give all or a moderate percentage to charity and organizations. But to justify this, I'd need a modicum of hosted artists and projects. Let's say the fee was $75 and I only had one artist, $25 towards the site, the rest to charity. $50 isn't a whole lot to give to a charity, but maybe it's just the thought that counts.

So hopefully you see the motivation behind my idea, which is primarily to help others, and it's a labour of love basically. Maybe down the road I might record musicians for free or a small profit too, I don't know. I just am trying to think one step at a time instead of thinking beyond my abilities or jumping the gun, so to speak.

What do you think?

[Professor]

So many different considerations, it's hard to start.
If you want to start your own 'label' to make and market the products of your various music projects, then by all means do it. I wouldn't recommend bringing in other bands until you have experienced enough of the promotion and marketing of your own music to be useful to the other bands.
Whether you charge a fee or give it away, you will only really be doing the band a service if you are successful. Just typing their name on a website won't get you or them very far. And if you can't design & update the site yourself, then you'll be paying someone else to do it which will add up to a lot of expense if you want it to be as current as it would need to be.

Then there is the terminology of "non-profit". You should visit the Secretary of State of Wisconsin website and learn yourself up on business filing and practice. (there's a link on the right to the department of financial institutions which has the corporate filing documents & here is the page with all the corporate forms) A 'non-profit' corporation is a very unique tax status entity that is somewhat difficult to establish and maintain. It is an entity that can receive money tax-free in the form of donations, grants, etc. and can be staffed by volunteers and/or paid employees. You can collect a fee as a normal business, but as a non-profit you would probably need to call it something different, like a "membership" fee (not sure on that).
Of course you can certainly give the services away, but here again, you cannot claim the tax deductions unless you have receipts and the group receiving the gift doesn't reciprocate any kind of service, product or gift - and they might need to be non-profit groups themselves, though I don't recall that being the case.

You could charge a $75 fee and give 2/3 to charity, but the bands might prefer that you just charge $25 and let them choose their favorite charity, and you'll still have to pay any tax burdens on the $25 income (because the $50 to charity only negates the tax burden on $50 of the $75 that came in).

As for the recording bands for free part, well that's where I draw the line on politeness. Please don't go and start recording bands for free, especially not in any towns where I'm trying to make a living in this business. There are lots of guys who are struggling trying to build and run studios because that is their passion. Having some guy build a little home studio and start recording bands for free will seriously hurt them. And I know it seems really sweet and nice and cool to give free stuff away to the musicians, think about the recording engineers out there who think it would be more sweet, more nice, and more cool to be able to pay their rent.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's really nice that you want to do all of this for the musicians. Starting a record label would be great, but a 'non-profit' label is more than just a description, it is a legal status. And if you are going to start a label from scratch, it would be best to experiment and learn the ropes with your own bands before building up the hopes of other bands. And instead of building a studio and giving away services for which other guys charge money, perhaps you could build a performance venue where new, unknown, untried bands could come and play to an audience. Maybe a place with a super low cover (just so the band gets a little cash too) but with a nice stage, good sound system, good atmosphere, and open to all kinds of new & fresh talent. In the end, I don't think musicians need the free services of a basement project studio as much as they need a place to play, be heard, and make money from their music.

-Jeremy

[phait]

I agree very much with working with my own projects (label and recording) before working with other musicians, so yeah like I said, if I do this letting others in wouldn't be until down the road.

As for the free-recording bit, I'm actually on both sides of the fence. The reason for this is I'm humble enough to admit I am not greatly experienced with recording, but that I am always wanting to learn and I learn by working on my own stuff as well. So because of the lack of experience, it's hard for me to justify charging anyone. On the other side, I have no disagreements with the fact that a free studio can harm the profiting studio's business... it seems like a kind of tough call here. I run my own webdesign services, and I can see how someone doing it for free could be a disservice as well. Then again, I don't charge very much either...

Thanks for the links to the state information, I was thinking about that too.

[Tim Casey]

You can always get a friend with a band and ask them if they could come by and let you record a couple of songs while you get the hang of it, but I'd make sure they knew it was a one-shot deal and that it'd ONLY be a couple of songs. Otherwise, the people who are now your friends would turn into vultures - trust me, it's human nature. They'd just want more and more. If they were old enough and mature enough, they'd start throwing little "thank-you" gifts your way, but I wouldn't bet on it. Plus, you'd be hurting local studio owners who are borderline "non-profit" anyway.

Take it one step at a time. See if you can get a website going for cheap that you can update yourself, and see if you can get your own stuff recorded well.

Here's my website host - they're cheap, they answer service calls REALLY quickly, and their servers aren't located in the US (so if it ends up there's a site on the server that the US Government decides is afoul of the Patriot Act, they can't just pull the plug on the server and leave your benign site hanging out in the cold):

http://www.icdsoft.com/hosting.php

[phait]

I already have a host n' all that, see my sig

The problem is, I have no friends in bands. To be brutally honest, I have 1 friend. I can't do any recording just yet, don't have the space or some of the equipment, but I have what I need to work on my own.

[gog]

... i basically have a label as an umbrella for my projects and am about to take on a few other artists to promote them through my site for no profit. it won't really take much of my time to have a page for them with links to purchase their music, and the sum of our individual efforts will probably help us all as a whole. i may do a promotional compilation and the possibility of sharing the cost on some advertising is an advantage.
right now speckRECORDS is a sole proprietorship, and i have a few people who volunteer outside of the artists involved. if you want to check out what i've done (the other artists should be added early in the new year), you can visit http://www.speckrecords.com. i'm keeping it pretty simple and learning as i go, and maybe my site will give you a few ideas or at the very least help validate your idea as a good one... i think so, but i also may be nuts.

best of luck in your endeavors, and please feel free to share any ideas - jv

[I'm Painting Again]

heres a web based not-for-profit label you could check out :

they have some great and interesting stuff :

http://www.comfortstand.com/catalog.html

[gog]

... wow, that is truly a non profit label... free downloads, with sooo many bands... very cool. i guess by non profit (as it pertains to me) i meant that i don't make any money off of the artists that i help promote... but they make money on their sales and so do i on mine. i hope my dropping in on this thread wasn't inappropriate.

[I'm Painting Again]

you can download the art too which is real sweet..

[phait]

Thanks for the replies / support, much appreciated.

I thought a little more about this and while I knew it wouldn't be an easy undertaking, it seems a little more difficult. As long as I have a clear plan, starting out should be smooth.

I checked out the online label site, that's similiar to what I'm wanting to do, except I'm thinking the artist would be free to sell what they want, though they'd need some free material to upload. I just like the idea of providing a home for someone's art until they can find a bigger place with more resources and hopefully honest people. I would also be promoting these artists though, and maybe we would work together to get them gigs.

The kind of overlooked thing here is that the label wouldn't just be for musicians, but say film-makers, authors, etc. One of the reasons for this variety is because as I start the label for just myself, I'm including all my projects under it - whether music or entirely different creative endeavor. It'd be unfair to say "yeah, I only accept musicians, but here's my other work".

With this in mind I can see how managing the label residents might get time consuming, and while I'm not afraid of putting in hard work and time, this is something I really need to think about.

I think what I'll do is begin the label, and keep it for myself for awhile, and along the way develop ideas and concepts for how it's going to work, then when I have a solid plan - open it to others.