Classic recordings that are out of tune

general questions, comments and ideas about recording, audio, music, etc.
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SKEETER
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Re: Classic recordings that are out of tune

Post by SKEETER » Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:42 am

The band I am in does MOONAGE DAYDREAM ran into ZIGGY STARDUST, and I thought the guitar on that sounded like the G string was out too, but figured "nah, those guys are professional, can't be"

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Re: Classic recordings that are out of tune

Post by StivBatorsWreckedMyCar » Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:57 am

OK, why is so much great and pleasing music out-of-tune? Early Bowie, good-era Kinks, early-to-mid Stones and let's not even talk punk rock. Well, I've read Keith state a few times how he intentially lets one of his five strings go wild, I forget which and in which tuning. He thought it added bite and character, which Monkey Man has in spades (doesn't he also play bass on that song?). It also reminds of learning to play slide and how I was told to vibrate the slide over the intended fret position because the listeners ears would make the adjustment and find the right pitch. Maybe that kind of interaction makes for some rewarding experience for the listener.

Anyways, perfect ain't perfect.

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Re: Classic recordings that are out of tune

Post by JASIII » Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:00 pm

Santana's "Samba Pa Ti". Those bends HURT!
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Re: Classic recordings that are out of tune

Post by jeddypoo » Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:09 pm

Early Beatles are lousy with out-of-tune instruments and vox.
I find adherence to fantasy troubling and unreasonable.

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Re: Classic recordings that are out of tune

Post by Stephen » Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:11 pm

jeddypoo wrote:Early Beatles are lousy with out-of-tune instruments and vox.
Well the fact is John was pretty wobbly, but boy did he have the stuff.
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Re: Classic recordings that are out of tune

Post by the zombies are evolving! » Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:28 pm

someone should have mentioned crime by now. every song guaranteed to be out of tune and it sounds amazing.

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Re: Classic recordings that are out of tune

Post by CKD » Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:37 pm

I always thought part of the charm of early Pavement stuff was how Malkmus used his inadequacies as a singer creatively...If he couldn't hit the note, he'd sing around it in a way that let you know he knew he couldn't hit the note. Now that he's learned how to sing, he still writes great songs, but some of the charm is gone...

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Re: Classic recordings that are out of tune

Post by radiantbrian » Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:38 pm

i'm surprised no one has mentioned this biggy: the low E string on the bass on Black Sabbath's 'Paranoid' (most the album if i remember correctly, Ironman most obviously). makes me laugh every time.

the lead guitar on ZZ Top's 'Jesus Just left Chicago'

and of course neither of these are no less classic because of it

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Re: Classic recordings that are out of tune

Post by SKEETER » Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:50 pm

honestly, with ozzy "singing", who would notice an instrument slightly out of tune?

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Re: Classic recordings that are out of tune

Post by StivBatorsWreckedMyCar » Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:56 pm

Isn't all that early Sabbath detuned anyway? Again, therein lies much of the sonic charm.

I will agree that early Beatles is great if you don't make me listen to it.

Crime rules but I prefer the Weirdos (who also had a penchant for being out of tune)...

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Re: Classic recordings that are out of tune

Post by jeddypoo » Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:58 pm

John and Paul were both wobbly sometimes in those days. "Hold Me Tight" is amazingly flat, and that's paul. Of course, most of that stuff was done completely live, so you gotta give em' a little slack.
I find adherence to fantasy troubling and unreasonable.

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Re: Classic recordings that are out of tune

Post by SKEETER » Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:42 pm

As I said before, I think the age of digital accuracy has taken a lot of the character out of music. In real life, insturments do not tune 100% accurately without the aid of a device most often, and singers at one time did not have the option of going back and punching in a word correction or line correction. The BEATLES early stuff was all done live in the studio, under not exactly ideal conditions.
I have noticed something else, back toward the end of the rock era, (I am thinking early eighties) bar bands were still copying stuff note for note, and I used to see some bar bands that blew me away with how close they played songs. I mean, things like guys that could play all of Neil Schons parts to "Wheel in the Sky" VERY close to the album. Now it seems bar bands are sloppy and less perfected, and could care less if they even include the guitar solos, let alone getting them down note for not, and pretty much view a live gig as a paid practice. The band I am in is kind of blown away by the fact that I actually sit down and take time to learn the solos, and the right chords rather than just finding the closest major, minor , or seventh.

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Re: Classic recordings that are out of tune

Post by mrufino1 » Tue Dec 28, 2004 2:02 pm

My Girl has VERY out of tune horns. So does "When a Man Loves a Woman" I read that it was because they would have air conditioning on but have to shut it off for the take, and in the case of Motown's studio, that could mean as much as a 10 degree change that fast, which would knock horns and strings wildly out. The high note in the violins on "Only Wanna Be with You" by Dusty Springfield strains a lot too. It seems like a lot of music form that time was a little out, but there were so many variables, includign tuning by ear, I'm sure tape speeds varied a little bit from time to time, and also they did things much more quickly. I remember Carol Kaye talking about the Monkees tunes and wondering why they would make such an issue that they didn't play their own stuff. She said (paraphrased from what I remember), " It was an economic decision. We generally cut 3-5 songs in a 3 hour session, so they could do the whole album in a day, as opposed to 3 months with the Monkees (or any other group at the time like Paul Revere and the Raiders, etc., the wrecking crew did all those tracks anyway). Besides, who would want to see us onstage, all we did was sit and read music, they were good performers." Makes some sense. One of these days I'd love to run a session like that.

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Re: Classic recordings that are out of tune

Post by hammertime » Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:09 pm

Hendrix at Woodstock, especially Purple Haze. Considering how hard he hit the whammy bar, though, it's kind of surprising he wasn't more out of tune.

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Re: Classic recordings that are out of tune

Post by JGriffin » Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:05 pm

SKEETER wrote: back toward the end of the rock era, (I am thinking early eighties) bar bands were still copying stuff note for note, and I used to see some bar bands that blew me away with how close they played songs. I mean, things like guys that could play all of Neil Schons parts to "Wheel in the Sky" VERY close to the album. Now it seems bar bands are sloppy and less perfected, and could care less if they even include the guitar solos, let alone getting them down note for not, and pretty much view a live gig as a paid practice.
Agreed. In the bar bands I played with in the late '80s/early '90s, we'd kinda make judgement calls about what parts needed to be copied exactly and what could be fudged. Certain solos had to be done note-for-note (Comfortably Numb, Don't Stop Believin', any Boston), and some stuff could be fudged (Sweet Home Alabama, just about any solo Clapton except Wonderful Tonight). If the audience would sing along to the solo, ye'd better earn it! Bands I see today are much less concerned about that, and generally just play an approximation of the song that's close enough that the audience will know what song it is.
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