Can someone answer some really basic questions for me?

[magritte]

i am new to recording my own stuff, so this may seem really basic/stupid to some people but it would help a lot:

1. at what db on the VU meter should i record bass/drum/keyboard/guitar?(please list each one if you could and the reason why)

2. what processes should one take during recording to ensure that the songs will all be the same volume (and loud enough) during mastering?


i might have some more stupid questions but this is it for now. thanks in advance.

[stevemoss]

1:
The basic idea is to get your tracks down as loudly as possible without clipping/distortion. There's no exact number to aim for, other than:

If you're recording on an analog system, knocking the needle into the red is alright (in fact, folks often exploit that) - just try not to keep it pegged in the red, as you might not necessarily like the results. On a digital system, avoid pegging while recording (sound gets clipped in a harsh distorted way).

Really, when tracking, you just want to get everything down good and crisply. This gives you the most signal to play around with during mixing (and reducing your level as you mix sounds a lot better than trying to boost something that's been weakly recorded.


2:
It's not essential to make sure every song is exactly as loud as the one that precedes it. As long as they flow reasonably, you're doing fine. Different songs' moods, more than anything, ought to dictate the volume and dynamics of your mixes.

[magritte]

1:
2
It's not essential to make sure every song is exactly as loud as the one that precedes it. As long as they flow reasonably, you're doing fine. Different songs' moods, more than anything, ought to dictate the volume and dynamics of your mixes.

yes but i don't want to have to adjust the volume knob on my stereo after each song if one is loud and one soft. is this what is done during mastering? should i not worry about this?

[MoreSpaceEcho]

hi magritte,

1. it depends. what are you recording to? tape, hard disc, etc.

2. don't worry about it. just worry about getting each mix sounding good. let the mastering engineer worry about getting them all to play at a consistent volume. if they're reasonably mixed they should all be relatively close to each other in level, and it's easy to adjust things a couple db in either direction.

-scott

[magritte]

hi magritte,

1. it depends. what are you recording to? tape, hard disc, etc.

i am recording to tape. 8 track (tsr) to be exact.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

well, it still depends. it depends on what kind of tape you're using, how you have the machine set up, and how much tape saturation you're aiming for. for example, sometimes i record drums super hot to tape and squash 'em right down, other times that's not what i want and i'm a lot more conservative. anyway, the short answer is probably "around zero". you want to get a pretty healthy level to tape, it's just a matter of learning your machine and finding out where stuff sounds good. a good thing to try is monitoring off the playback head and adjusting the record levels to hear the effect of the tape compression. kick is a good place to start. you'll hear when it's too hot, it turns to mush....


scott

[xonlocust]

tsrs have LED meters right? if so, you don't need to worry about this, but it's helpful to know for other stuff.... on machines w/VU meters - one thing to remember is that transients often hit and go away quicker than the VU meter can respond. often times there will be a peak light in conjunction w/the VU. something with a very consistent volume (usually guitar) you can nestle it right up there at 0 - but something like kick and snare, will look like something like -10 or so - so it looks like you're not going as hot to tape, but that's just backed off the peak point.

also as everyone said, whatever you want. those are the general rules for "proper" recording. but if it sounds good, it's right. you can distort the crap out of it if you want. whatever sounds good to you and the song.

[EasyGo]

I love to hit the TSR-8 in the +3 to +5 range. I am specifically going for a saturated, compressed sound. That's with the dbx switched on; the higher levels bring the noise floor down even lower.

Wazzup Xonlocust!

[cassembler]

As far as the dynamics of your mixes go, a good (note the word "good") mastering job will even out the volume differences, but there's a tradeoff between having to touch your stereo's volume knob and listening to very fatiguing squished crap if your music is very dynamic.

But a good mastering job should make the whole production, start to finish, consistent enough where the dynamics poke through but there aren't any unintentional differences between song volumes.

Each mixdown (24 bit) should peak anywhere from -12 to -2 dBfs, and in 16 bit probably -6 to -1, depending on the content, as a guide. Try to leave the mastering engineer a few dB to play with; peaking at -.1 during mixdown is not recommended.

EDIT: that last chunk applies to digital mixdown only; for analog, you need to trust your ears more and the meters less to sense the tape saturation and adjust accordingly...

[probability]

alright, since I'm still a newbie too...

Everyone talks about recording in the red on tape, but are they talking about getting the peaks around +3 or +5 or are they actually suggesting getting average levels around there and using a limiter to prevent peaks. I've got a Tascam 48 and the one time I was stupid enough to try and record acoustic guitar by watching the needle bounce slightly in the red, the peak light kept flashing non stop.

So now I'm assuming that you're either supposed to imagine the peaks hitting around +5 (since the needle isn't quick enough to catch peaks), or you're supposed to plug in a limiter.

Perhaps someone could clarify this.

Thanks,
Beau

[MoreSpaceEcho]

Beau,

I can't speak for everyone else, but on my Otari 5050, 0db on the VU is calibrated to +6, and I peak it way higher than that all the time. I think my peak lights are set at +18 (I should really know that exactly, shouldn't I? Such a bad engineer.....) and they light constantly on drums. As I mentioned above, I keep kick and snare reasonably low to tape so as not to squash too much transient off them, especially kick. Room mics i'll hit it basically as hard as i can before it starts breaking up...

...and at the other end of the scale, if you're recording tambourine or some such, keep the level to tape LOW. like barely moving the needle low. unless of course you want it to sound all saturated and nasty. then by all means go nuts. but beware that it will likely bleed onto the adjacent tracks, and make big mess for you!

scott

[jajjguy]

Beau, I'd recommend against using a limiter just to manage peaks while tracking. Use a limiter (a) if it makes whatever you're recording sound the way you want (i.e., as an effect) or (b) later, while mixing, to manage levels. When you're tracking, you should be able to get eveything you need onto tape without having to worry about managing levels, which is more of a mixing (or even mastering) thing. If you feel like you need a limiter to keep the peaks from being too loud, then you just need to turn down the gain on your preamp.

[chemicalpink]

If the tsr-8 is still set up like it was from the factory its most likely set
up so 0 is +3 and tapes like 456 can be hit all the way up to like +15
without alot of distortion but alot of tape saturation. I used to have a
tsr-8 and with louder music I would record bass very hot (the meters
would be pegged like 70% of the time) and the same for guitars but
it all depends on what you are going for, the tsr does not have a seperate
repro head, so you will need to record some tracks and go back and
listen and see if its the sound your looking for. if you use the dbx you
will have to lower the levels because with its code/decode process it goes to
tape hotter then the meters indicate. also with dbx you have to be carefull
not to get too much bass, it has a bump around 100hz. As far as keeping
your levels consistent on your mixes make sure all the loudest peaks
on all the songs are the same with a digital mix format like -.5 is perfect
if you can pull it off, compression on each track that needs it, helps.
on analog (in my weirdo mind the only way to go) like +9, then mastering
will bring up the apparent volume on the softer stuff.

[sthslvrcnfsn]

Ok, I have a question, too. further back in the post, someone talked about levels clipping when you go to digital. I am recording digital with the worst equipment in the entire world. It's one track at a time on my computer, and here's the chain:

SM57
Behringer MX802A <cringe>
$25 sound card with one "input"
Sound Forge and all it's glorious FX (this is where it distorts. i don't even touch the FX, just play it back natural and it sounds like ass. you can see the frickin waves,, they clip!!!)
Cool Edit Pro 2 for mixing (which doesn't even matter)

Between the behringer (channel gain, channel volume, master volume) and the computer ("input" volume), I can't seem to stop electric guitars from clipping. I can turn stuff waaaaaay down and have enough headroom to jump on a fvcking trampoline, but the dynamically loudest parts still distort. I am recording some distorted guitars, but I want the distortion from the amp, not anywhere else! I want the recording to capture that, and not take it's own big digital shit all my sound. Even on clean-sounding guitar tracks, it clips when I strum harder or right-hand mute (Keef Richards stop-and-go style) everything becomes worthless.

thanks
jim

[chemicalpink]

It sounds like you only have a mic input on you sound card and the
output of your board is too hot and the wrong impedence you'll
have to get a different sound card, even a cheap ass sound blaster
should be able to take -10(0 on the meters on your board if you are
going off the inserts or some other unbalanced output) plus you should
be able to record straight into cool edit or whatever multi-track sofware.
you could also have a computer or software problem but I'm not going
to get into it, I don't really like cuntputers.