Click tracks again...

[shoehorn]

Actually this may be a bit different.

The guitar player in my band and I have a low level dispute about click tracks. He has the view that it sterilizes a recording or does not allow it to breath. My view is that you can get an energetic recording using clicks and it gives you so many options, especially when using the computer extensively. I have had good luck doing my own recordings using drum machines and real drum overdubs.

What are your views?

Also, what kind of percentage of major label and major indie type stuff uses click tracks?

Thanks!!

[Slider]

Click tracks are widely used on big projects now that the grid is overused for fixing crap (or in some cases brilliantly crappy) performances and for looping parts or sequencing with live tracks.

I personally always look forward to recording without the click.
It seems even the more green young bands want to track with a click these days.
I guess they veiw it as being "Pro".
Usually it hurts more than helps these people.
I guess it depends on the project.

[glagola1]

I think they suck. I much prefer to play live. The energy of a live take can never be reproduced when the player is not in control but is in the passenger seat of the song.

But that's just me and I'm a newb to the whole recording thing. I just know that my band's recordings come out much more intense and heartfelt when it's live.

[slowblue]

It also depends on how you're tracking, if you're doing mostly overdubs clicks are useful, but if the band is tracking live a little ebb and flow is nice. It's also useful if you've got a galloping drummer who won't believe they are all over the place tempo wise. Ever recorded a steady bass player and unsteady drummer? Ugly.

[Rigsby]

Click tracks are obviously handy but i hate drummers recording to them, if it's all live drums rather than samples or live percussion (which i pretty much always do with a click) then i'm anti-click unless it's a lead in. A lot of drummers who are otherwsie really enjoyable to hear simply don't play well with one, and if the band are tight live then it usually makes for a better recording. Wherever possible prefer a band to record live, i don't always have the set up to do that though.

[Stephen]

I use them with my band because my drummer does not have the best time in the world. However he does play well with one and is used to it. If a drummer doesn't practice to a metrinome or is inexperienced with a click, then he probably won't play well with one.
I use them if I am doing mutiple overdubs and playing all the instruments. I usually start with a guide guitar and vocal with the click. Once the drums are done the click is dispatched with and the arrangement is built upon the drums.
Tip: When recording with a click if you can hear it, you are off. When I record a drummer playing to a cllick I never listen to the click, just the drummer. If he is slightly in front of it, as long it is musical, I don't care. Trying to get a whole band to play to a click is a nightmare tho'. You are better off just letting them run.
Pax, Steve

[Devlars]

Forgive me for not taking the time to give my usual explanatory post but it's almost time to leave work and I wanted to chime in so without further eloquence...

Click tracks: Hate 'em.

The End

[dale116dot7]

I've done both. For live-off-the-floor I love no click. For live off the floor plus maybe a vocal overdub or two, maybe a guitar overdub, no click is ok too. If a band has not rehearsed with a click on a very regular basis, no click.

Banjo as an overdub without a click? Very, very difficult. The banjo subdivides beats into small slivers and if those beats are changing it's hard for the player to 'lock in' unless a click was used. Usually the banjo player asks for more click than anything else in the phones so they can really lock into a steady beat. If a banjo is to be overdubbed (or if that was the plan), without a click, it would be better to put them in an iso booth and do it on the first take through. Even if that take is trashed, the song was played through with the 5-string there and it tends to lock to it. One band I recorded changed the lead singer of one song from the banjo player to the guitar player for one song because of this.

I've found that a click really helps when you're doing a lot of overdubs. The give-and-take in each layer works against the give-and-take on the previous layer, and so forth, and you end up with a horribly out-of-time mess, or at least something that sounds not so settled.

[Tim Casey]

Clicks are a great way of training musicians to pay attention. Once they understand tempo and can feel it, they can slosh all over the place on their own and still sound tight.

Beethoven probably practiced to a click (a metronome); he turned out okay. The WORST musicians I've dealt with have always INSISTED that there's something wrong with the click track instead of realizing they were using muscles that have gone undeveloped for years....

[trashy]

recording whole band: no click.

recording one piece at a time: click.

I have spoken.

[joel hamilton]

When it is appropriate, it can be great to have a reference.

When it is not, it can be a HUGE waste of time to even try it.

Figuring out when a certain approach is appropriate is the key to all of this recording and music stuff...

Really though. Just like any other decision in the studio, it should be made without precoceived notions, hearsay, emotional attachment....

A reasonable amount of detachment from the process can help in making really good decisions... uh-oh... I am getting all "zen" again. I am gonna get into trouble...

[allbaldo]

With a GREAT drummer, I don't use it, but a lot of mediocre drummers can benifit from one, and as has been echoed many times here, it can be a big help when doing a lot of overdubbing and punching/editing.

A friend of mine..a truly great drummer said: "A click can make a mediocre drummer really good, and a great drummer...really good".

[GLEA]

No click is best for a band tracking all at once. We have a good drummer,but once or twice he's asked for a click on certain songs. Usually by the end he's slipped out of time. On the other hand, we have cut a few tracks to a click and then added drums. In some cases he was good playing with the drum machine part I'd done, and other times he just likes a shaker.

We cut one of my songs live in the studio last year. I just could not get them to slow down and put some space in it. The track was ok but not what I intended. A few weeks ago, I started again from scratch. This time I built it up using a shaker/bongo click. I had the other guys work with me so when the drummer came in, he had more than just a click to play along with. This forced the drummer to play what I wanted. He finally caught on that he didn't have to play all the time. The results were beautiful. I did two takes in DP. In the end I pulled two fills from the first take and dropped them into the second.

I really think absoulte timing is not necessary. This same dummer of our's can go both ways. Some songs ebb and flow naturally, others are solid as a rock. It all has to do with the song.

Weren't a few famous Beatles tracks cut to a human click (ringo playing tambourine) and then drums added later?

[dynomike]

At least until Chris pops in I'll lend a drummers perspective:

A good drummer can play well and musically with OR without a click. There are many tracks done without clicks that may as well be clicked because the drummer is so solid. I generally try to avoid the click unless the arrangement necessecitates it (lots of pauses between drum parts, doing overdubs rather than live off the floor).

When a drum track goes through the entire song, I love playing without a click, just the drum track start to finish and overdubbing everything against that. I play all the instruments on my stuff, so the overdubbing is a necessity.

When the click is necessary due to the arrangement, I'll track the drums first with the click first, then mute the click during the sections where the drums are present. That way, the rest of the overdubs follow the drums rather than the click to add a bit more of a natural, less mechanical feel. I find this works very well.

It totally depends on the musician though -- a lot of people just CANNOT play to clicks, and should not be made to or else the results will sound disastrous (slowing down, speeding up to correct, etc.. it can sound really forced with a musician who isn't used to it.). In these cases, its not worth the time to argue with their perhaps warped internal clock.

Of course, there are styles of music in which a click track will totally detract from the style of music. Imo, punk music and most indie rock sounds much more genuine without a click. I'm listening to the dismemberment plan now, and it doesn't sound very clicked.. just like a strong band. I could be wrong here. I also love and respect their lack of vocal processing. I'm drifting off topic, like a bad drummer drifting off a click track. Smooth.

Mike

[cgarges]

At least until Chris pops in I'll lend a drummers perspective:

Here's a musician's perspective:

Does your guitar player think "A Day In The Life" is sterile? Does "Baba O'Riley" not breathe? What about "Tomorrow Never Knows?" (Sorry for all the Beatles refernces--they just came to mind first because so many people forget that that stuff was largely cut to a time refernce of some sort.)

A click track has very little to do with the outcome of a project in and of itself. A BAND who can or can't play with one (not just the drummer) is far more productive or detrimental. Better or worse? If having a greater command of both time and your instrument is better, then "better."

I've heard sterile, suck-ass music come from tracks without clicks, too.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC