Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

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MoreSpaceEcho
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Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon May 12, 2003 10:54 am

Hi y'all,

So i've been mixing on event 20/20s for a couple years now. i certainly don't love them, but i'm used to them and can deal. except for the low end. i feel like i constantly get burnt on the 40-60hz region, even though i know to be conservative with that area. it's like a couple db too much in that region totally changes the way the whole mix comes across. and i don't wanna be "fixing it in mastering", i want the mixes to be happening in the first place. soooo, does anyone have any suggestions for affordable monitors that will give me some sort of reasonable perspective on the lows? "affordable" meaning "under a grand". i'm thinking the likely answer is "it ain't gonna happen", so any thoughts on just getting a sub instead? i've always kinda thought that might make things more complicated, as far as crossovers and such, but, uh, i don't really know. (producer voice) what do you guys think?

thanks!
-scott

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Re: Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

Post by jajjguy » Mon May 12, 2003 11:28 am

I think low end is the part most seriously affected by room acoustics. Your room might have problems (most do) that won't be helped by new monitors.

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markpar
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Re: Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

Post by markpar » Mon May 12, 2003 11:42 am

I concur. My room seriously contributes to my inability to accurately monitor in the 50-100Hz range. It sucks to keep mixing, burning to CD, going downstairs to check the mix, repeating ad nauseaum.

-mark

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Re: Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

Post by @?,*???&? » Mon May 12, 2003 12:07 pm

The Tuned Reference series by Event are much better than the 20/20 series. Better bottom with the TR8. The Tr5 is a great disposable speaker for the price. I use Tannoy Mercury M2 monitors and picked them up because of the great bottom end. Same drivers as the Reveal series, but difference porting, cabinet and crossover. Better for long term listening. I have mixed on the Reveals and didn't get the low end in my mixes I'm used to. The M2 gives me something consistent everytime that translates on other systems. More of a 'home audio' speaker but with great vocal presence. About $330 a pair. Genelec 1031A monitors, while sweet sounding speakers, are just too nice to whatever you're listening too. I've heard some very crappy sounding tracks cut with them because they mask so much. And for the money, who would expect that?

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Re: Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon May 12, 2003 2:02 pm

jeff-

yeah the tuned reference Events looked interesting, they're pretty low dough aren't they? 500 bucks or something? i think the 20/20s are fine for the price, i'm just really burnt out on them. they sound ok at low volumes, but the high end gets painful when i have it loud. did you find the TR8 to be just plain better all around than the 20/20s, or was it more just the low end that was better?

i agree with you about the genelecs. way too smiley face for me.

markpar and jajjguy-

yeah, i concur as well, but i think my room is not too bad as far as home studios go, it's like 14' wide, 17' long, 13' ceilings. not ideal, but workable, and certainly the best mixing situation i've ever had at home. i have a big bookshelf serving as a diffuser on the back wall, and i s'pose my bed works as a bass trap :) i think i have my monitors pretty well set up-they're away from the walls and corners, i mix on the computer (i know...) so i don't have a big board in front of 'em causing any weird reflections...

when i'm checking mixes on my stereo, it doesn't seem like it's the 50-100 range that's so bad, it's the boomy sub stuff that's killing me. and i don't wanna just be high passing everything to just get rid of it, because i like all that super low stuff, just not so damn much of it! I understand that most nearfields aren't gonna have much info down there, but i gotta believe i could find something that would at least let me make better educated guesses...

cheers,
-scott

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Re: Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

Post by markpar » Mon May 12, 2003 2:05 pm

Have you thought about adding a subwoofer? That would definitely give you reproduction in the freq range we're talking about.

-mark

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Re: Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

Post by hurricaneE » Mon May 12, 2003 3:00 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:jeff-

yeah the tuned reference Events looked interesting, they're pretty low dough aren't they? 500 bucks or something? i think the 20/20s are fine for the price, i'm just really burnt out on them. they sound ok at low volumes, but the high end gets painful when i have it loud. did you find the TR8 to be just plain better all around than the 20/20s, or was it more just the low end that was better?
Just did a review comparing the TR8 to the 20/20s (passive) for T'Op. The top and low end are noticablly improved on the TR8, although I liked the 20/20s. Just sent my first album to be mixed on the TR8s to mastering and left a lot of low end just to cover my ass (I chickended out and laid off the HPF despite the fact I was sure I had everything under control); look forward to hearing how they translate. I found the imaging on the TR8s to be a lot better, but they are a little more aggressive sounding (although not weirdly so), so if the 20/20s are fatiguing, you might not like the TR8s. I definitely get a lot more out of the low end on the TR8s, although I was able to work with the 20/20s. -E

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Re: Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

Post by jspartz » Wed May 14, 2003 2:44 pm

So how many of you use a seperate subwoofer to help in monitoring the low end of your mixes? Do you find that it helps or does it hide frequency problems once the mix is in the real world? If you use a subwoofer is it a generic (cost effective) consumer audio product or is it a true professional product (ton's of tweaking options)?

jason

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Re: Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

Post by jb5dogs » Wed May 14, 2003 2:53 pm

i'm pretty happy with my NHT A10's...

good accurate reproduction with decent low end, powered. under $500 for a pair.

http://www.zzounds.com/prodsearch?form= ... submit.y=0

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Re: Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

Post by markpar » Wed May 14, 2003 3:01 pm

I'm wondering the same thing. The low end response in my room is really off and I've wondered if a sub would make any difference at all.

-mark

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Re: Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

Post by eeldip » Wed May 14, 2003 3:11 pm

i think adding subs may add more problems than they solve.

that said, i had trouble with lowend and i got a paradigm sub for my control room. seems to have been a decent $200 fix. but i probably should have just upgraded my monitors. (genelec 1029s)

it takes a long time to set-up and add a subwoofer that will give you very useful information.
Last edited by eeldip on Wed May 14, 2003 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

Post by @?,*???&? » Wed May 14, 2003 3:23 pm

Here's a tip for you guys mixing on near fields- forget about dealing accurately with anything below 60hz. Near fields just won't touch those frequencies. Rear porting and proper distance from a back wall can help, but you'll never really get a proper picture without a set of main monitors sporting twin 15" woofers. Low-end is the single toughest thing about recording and mixing. We're in an era where low-end can rule in the digital domain because you can get it all without the roll-off on tape. Unless you're mixing hip/hop, forget about a sub too. Nothing direct or necessary comes from them and the crossover point will always yield a notch. Subs are not 'rock'. When you're recording or mixing, think in terms of natural organic sounds. Does that sound like a 'bass' drum? Does that sound like a 'floor tom'? Does that sound like a bass guitar? Don't overthink it.

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Re: Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

Post by assfortress » Thu May 15, 2003 8:34 am

Jeff Robinson wrote:Rear porting and proper distance from a back wall can help,
do you have any info on the proper distance from the back wall?

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Re: Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

Post by helstab » Thu May 15, 2003 9:50 am

I mix with a sub kind of, but with it barely on. I do my best to mix without and then I turn the sub up to please my ears at the end. I don't really mix while the bass while its on. Just turn it up after and see how much is there. Its nice to have.
-Matthew Macchio$tab

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Re: Any "affordable" monitors with good low end?

Post by Flight Feathers » Thu May 15, 2003 10:13 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote: soooo, does anyone have any suggestions for affordable monitors that will give me some sort of reasonable perspective on the lows? "affordable" meaning "under a grand".
a pair of used mackie hr824's usually run $800-1000, and they are totally worth it. the low end and detail completely blow away my previous monitors (tannoy reveals). they aren't the absolute best monitors in the world, but i think they have the best "bang for the buck", especially considereing the genelec's cost twice as much.

instead of spending money on a sub, i'd spend it on room acoustic treatement. bass traps will actually make the bass louder and more focused in a room. i've been thinking about splurging on some auralex stuff myself.


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