orchestra recording

[dungeonsound615]

Alright well with the new year i have some recording goals, and one of them is to record an orchestra. YOu may remember my post about this a while back well im trying to get seriosu and motivated adn typed up a nice letter to send to them telling of what i would like to do.

Now i have my AW4416 which i could bring to the gig if need be however it is my studio setup and console/recorder that i use for recording bands in my basement studio. Should i just pack it up and bring that or shoudl i spend money and get something more portable.

I Also think im going to need to get some better mic stands ones that go up higer and are more sturdy any suggestions

last long mic cables and extension cords and fiding out exacetly what they would allow me to do, as i dont want to block anyones view or be in the way

sorry if i ask alot of questions, just want to make sure if they say yes i dont look and make an ass of myself.

mike

[JGriffin]

Back in my location recording class in college, the prof suggested a good portable recording rig would include a mic stand (or stands) contructed from several threaded 5' pipes, so that you could add pipe to the stand to get the mics as high in the air as you needed. You need a good heavy tripod base and some sandbags as well for this. It's the kind of thing you'd want to custom-build from hardware store stuff--a 20-foot mic stand is gonna cost lots of money if you can even find one.

[brew]

Ideally you'd have a heavy duty tripod stand and a stereo bar. These things alone can cost several hundred dollars (see http://www.wesdooley.com/aea/products.html for "the standards"). a typical BanjoCenter tele boom isn't going to cut it--not high enough and probably can't support the weight of the mics.

the AW4416 is perfectly ok. i'm not sure what you mean by more portable, when the only other comparable option would require a laptop, interface, wires, etc, which is not more portable IMO. a porta DAT perhaps but i think you are looking for a little more flexibility.

a backup recorder (DAT, CD, MD) is highly recommended in case something crashes.

good headphones for monitoring since you probably won't be in your own space. HD580 and 600 are classical standards (but not sealed). maybe go for HD280 or whatever you have.

i don't think one boom with a stereo pair is too objectionable visually, as long as you keep the cables under control. more than that out front could be questionable. select spots in the orchestra can be hidden fairly easily.

my best advice would be to know the layout of the orchestra during the pieces you will be recording well ahead of time. you can get this from the stage manager. it would also help if you are familiar with the period/style of the piece. this way you can optimally plan. like, say you're all excited to set up your bass spots, but show up and the piece doesn't have any basses. or you decide to use a main ribbon pair and it turns out you're recording a piano concerto... wouldn't be my first choice. the makeup of the orchestra is most important.

don't sweat it though, throw up a stereo pair and in a great hall it will sound great. an orchestra is a much "bigger" source than what most people record, but don't let that fool you into thinking you need tons of mics. think of it as one giant instrument, and what character of mic will best capture that instrument. have fun. oh, and leave your dynamics at home.

[bigtoe]

Hey Mike-

Try a boom for photo/lighting with some sandbags at the bottom to weight it down...you need to get an adapter for the mic clip...but it's way cheaper and way lighter than mic stands...all the cool guys in chicago do this except for the guy with 50 neumanns.

if you can have the conductor or ensemble or soloist play their loudest passage so you can set their mics....i used to ask this...sometimes they look ath you funny...just smack your gum and ask again. if you don't get it...set your levels conservatively. they may seem low...until the FFFFF.

in general...classical peeps may seem a lot more uptight than rock...it's external...same as with rock...be polite, be service-oriented, be confident and be honest and they'll love ya. it's an easy gig.

"don't sweat it though, throw up a stereo pair and in a great hall it will sound great"

yes.

[ivanovich]

the way i've done it is to have my laptop with the interface (at the time a motu 896 now a mbox) find good mic placement and record.

the way i'd like to do it is with some really nice mics-schoeps, dpa, (in my case a pair of stereo rodes), a nice stereo preamp (dw fearn, avalon, or some other shit that i dont even know about), and a NAGRA stereo recorder in good shape.

i dont have dpa schoeps fearn avalon or nagra. but i would love to just experiment with a nagra and see what it sounds like!

hey i'm allowed to dream right?!
i.

[hollywood_steve]

Just a comment about cables. Having made the switch from a typical rock studio to 100% location work (acoustic music only) a couple of years ago, I came into the new gig with a big box full of 25ft cables. I don't want to tell you how much I've spent since then on new cables so that I'm now prepared for the typical concert hall gig, but it wasn't fun. The only way it was even possible was that I am limited to 8ch as I use an 8ch hard disk recorder. I can't imagine how much it would cost to acquire 24ch worth of LONG cables.

Just as an example, on one gig last year, I was working in a small theatre, around 600 to 800 seats. I was only recording 6ch, but I still needed almost 800ft of mic cables. As a general rule, unless I'm working in a small jazz club, I typically bring 4ea 100ft cables, 4ea 50ft cables and at least a dozen 20 to 30ft cables to every gig. And remember, thats for no more than 8ch, usually less.

When people ask me where I've invested my retirement money, I tell them "copper."

[Punkity]

Just as an example, on one gig last year, I was working in a small theatre, around 600 to 800 seats. I was only recording 6ch, but I still needed almost 800ft of mic cables. As a general rule, unless I'm working in a small jazz club, I typically bring 4ea 100ft cables, 4ea 50ft cables and at least a dozen 20 to 30ft cables to every gig. And remember, thats for no more than 8ch, usually less.

Err... Wouldn't it be a bunch cheaper to use a snake? I got a completely decent 50 ft one for around $120 earlier this year.

[hollywood_steve]

Err... Wouldn't it be a bunch cheaper to use a snake? I got a completely decent 50 ft one for around $120 earlier this year.

Umm.... NO! How would a snake help me when I need to send cables from my "control room" in the balcony to 4 or 5 distinctly separate locations in the facility? Remember, this isn't close mic rock recording; all of the mics aren't in the same area. In this case two were halfway back on the main floor about 12 ft up. Two more were hung from the ceiling about 15ft over the front lip of the stage (these each required 200ft cables to wind around the room, up to the overhead tie lines and back down to the 15ft level. And two spots were on either side of the stage. Show me a snake that would help out in that situation? Yes, I have multichannel snakes, but they get little use on orchestra dates, unless my recording gear is far away and there is a long cable run after all the individual cables have come together.

[Punkity]

I wasn't thinking about rock micing at all, more along the line of purist decca tree or 3 omnis, perhaps with a solo mic or two. Either of these could be run on shorter mic cables to a snake at a central location. I didn't read your posts as closely as I should.

My bad.

[bigtoe]

"unless my recording gear is far away and there is a long cable run after all the individual cables have come together."

This is actually a hell of a lot easier. getting the snakes witth the built in cable wrapper spool thing is essential unless you want to be tearing down until 4AM and scrubbing duct tape off 1000+ feet of cable.

the academic arguement is then "well i have another connection in the chain..." not a huge deal in my experience especially if you're recording the 10th grade choir/orchestra at a suburban highschool.

Mike

[hollywood_steve]

be tearing down until 4AM

part of the job, unfortunately

and scrubbing duct tape off 1000+ feet of cable.

This should NEVER happen. You need to discover "gaffer's" tape; looks a lot like duct tape, only usually in colors other than silver. Leaves ZERO residue, but costs about $15 for a 2" roll. I use at least one 2" roll at every gig. But my cables look like new. Available in film tech supply stores; I guess that means it might not be as easy to get in places outside of LA.....

[bigtoe]

ah...good call steve...

but like we say in ohio...if you can't duct it...fuck it.

*sniffs and spits skoal...*

Mike