Studio Flooring Question

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lowlight
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Studio Flooring Question

Post by lowlight » Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:42 pm

We had some flooding in our studio recently, and now our landlord wants to put in some sound absorbing rubber acoustic tiles as flooring http://www.soundown.com/. we had wall to wall carpeting before, but he's not willing to put that back in, so we have a situation in which we must choose between the unknown of these tiles and the known lameness of a painted concrete floor.

no matter what floor we have (rubber tiles or painted concrete) we will have area rugs covering most of it.

If anyone knows anything about sound dampening tiles like these, or has experience with this stuff, we'd really appreciate some info. If you don't have direct experience with this stuff then please don't post advice for us. you'll only confuse us more.

thanks!
ll

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Re: Studio Flooring Question

Post by dynomike » Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:08 pm

Go with concrete, I'm not kidding.

You can stain the concrete so it won't be gross like painting the floor (I remember mine actually peeled in the humidity.. probably the wrong paint though).

If you've got a reflective floor, you can dampen the ceiling and walls somewhat but still have a spatial reference in your recordings... and besides, snare drums sound SO much better with a hard surface underneath them.
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Electro-Voice 664
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Re: Studio Flooring Question

Post by Electro-Voice 664 » Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:17 pm

I agree, everything I've read says to have a live floor and deader ceiling. Get your landlord to buy some real traps. Nathan is the man! It will be better spent money.

That reminds me in everyday life there is a dead kennedys song.
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Re: Studio Flooring Question

Post by nacho459 » Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:20 pm

Pull a Brian Wilson and cover the floor with sand

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Re: Studio Flooring Question

Post by RodC » Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:36 pm

Go with concrete and have lots of rugs around. There are instances where I wanted a live floor. You can always move rugs as you move amps around.

Try micing a guitar with the rug extending 8ft out in front of the cab then try one just 2ft out. There are a lot of early reflections if your guitar cab is on the floor.

lowlight
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Re: Studio Flooring Question

Post by lowlight » Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:27 pm

thanks for all the responses. not what I had expected, but it's good to hear that there's a consensus out there.

just a bit more detail to make sure - our space is pretty small - tracking room about 12 X 14 with an adjoining vocal booth which is about 5 X 8. our control room is something like 10 x 12.

would it make sense for us to use the dead floor in the control room? it really seems sketchy to have a mixing room with a concrete floor.

thanks,
ll

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Re: Studio Flooring Question

Post by spankenstein » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:45 am

I agree with the painted concrete. Everything I've read points to doing that especially if you have a low ceiling. I did one of my rooms with a reflective floor and absorbtive ceiling and it sounds MUCH better than with the carpet. It's suposed to give the effect of an infinite ceiling since the sound reflects up then gets absorbed. I'm going to be doing my main room the same way in the next few weeks.

If you paint it be sure to use the primer! The lady that helped me at home depot told me that I wouldn't really need the primer... well now the paint is coming up and if you set anything on it the paint scrapes off. I did use the "traction compound" stuff. It's a powder you mix in to give some texture so it's not slippery.

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I'm Painting Again
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Re: Studio Flooring Question

Post by I'm Painting Again » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:15 am

My studio has rubber tiles with some carpeting over it..1" floated pine walls over concrete..the rubber tiles I have are just standard stuff not labeled for sound dampening..when i record in this room I like the sound very much..when i record in the room(really narrow hall) with the concrete walls and floor..its a bit bright and boomey..

honestly I would say go for the rubber tiles..rather than concrete..especially if you have a bright room already..you could always find the absorbtion coefficient of the tile..should be pretty simple if the stuff landlord wants to put is labeled for sound treatment..

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Re: Studio Flooring Question

Post by Lee Knight » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:02 am

Here's the deal. Concrete doesn't absorb sound. We all know that. Carpet or other products do, but only in the highs, due to the limited thickness. You can, however, put full bandwith absorbtion on portions of the walls and ceiling (4" of 708 board). Carpet makes a dull sounding room because you're soaking up the highs and nothing else. A concrete floor with full bandwith absrobtion (at least down to 125Hz) on portions of the walls and ceiling will give you a better, balanced sound. So... concrete is no different than a wood floor as regards to it's sound. Really!

BTW, you've got to strip all products off of the conctere or anything you put down won't stay.

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Re: Studio Flooring Question

Post by I'm Painting Again » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:53 am

heres a chart showing someones data on floor materials :

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_mate ... 0Chart.htm

you can come to your own conclusions on wood vs. concrete floor or wall or what have you..it even has vinyl tile or linoleum on concrete..

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Re: Studio Flooring Question

Post by Lee Knight » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:29 am

BEARD_OF_BEES wrote:heres a chart showing someones data on floor materials :

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_mate ... 0Chart.htm

you can come to your own conclusions on wood vs. concrete floor or wall or what have you..it even has vinyl tile or linoleum on concrete..
Keep in mind when you review this chart... yes there is a "difference" between concrete and wood on the floor... but in the /100's of a Sabine. Look at the absortion of the concrete floor... now scroll way down on the chart and look at the absorption of 4" of 703 board.

On the flooring materials, you have minimal differences except for carpeting. Between the concrete figures and the 703 figures... a huge gap.


Look at it this way: The .99 figure or the .02 figure is based on 1 Sabine. 1 Sabine is the same as an open window. Zero reflection. So you want the number across the freq. spectrum to be pretty even. The carpet figures are not. At 125Hz it's absorbing 1/100th of a Sabine but almost 1/2 a Sabine at 4k. That's a difference of almost 1/2 a Sabine.

The 703 board has a maximum difference of only 2/100's of a Sabine down to 125Hz. Below 125Hz you've got to deal with things a little differently, but that's not your concern right now. So...

Skip the carpet or the "Sound Absorbing Flooring"... Put 4" of 703 on the first reflection spots of your walls and ceiling and be done with it.

At the very least, try to get the specs for this product. I looked for them and couldn't find them on the website of the product you're considering. That can't be good.

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Re: Studio Flooring Question

Post by I'm Painting Again » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:55 am

Totally..and your advice is very good IMO..I'm not trying to argue with you just help out the question with a reference..and some personal experience with related materials..the Vinyl tile or linoleum on concrete data on that chart is pretty even across the spectrum which IMHO would be pretty good too..overall I agree with the flooring not being as important as the treatment of major reflection points around the walls and ceiling..

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Re: Studio Flooring Question

Post by Lee Knight » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:58 am

Sorry. I realized later that my post might seem like I'm reacting to you in defense, but I'm not. I just wanted to help him interpet the info you provided. Thanks for the link.
Last edited by Lee Knight on Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Studio Flooring Question

Post by I'm Painting Again » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:08 am

Sometimes its hard to judge these things when your on a forum.."you can come to your own conclusions..etc." I think also had a contrary tone in context with the other posting as well..

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Re: Studio Flooring Question

Post by Lee Knight » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:13 am

Anyone with the word bulbous in their sig can't be all bad! :D

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