Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

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the_riff
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Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

Post by the_riff » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:23 pm

I'm trying to throw something on the Master fader in pro tools to do some "quick" mastering. Just something to beef up my mixes and most of all make them louder. I plan to get real mastering done when I finish the record, but this is just to listen for now. I have T-RACKS and have been trying to use the "mastering suite" with that but every preset on there seems to either make it sound "dull" or too much and then it's "squashed". Is there anywhere to maybe get some "user settings" for T-RACKS online maybe? OR should I just look into getting something else?

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Re: Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

Post by cassettefetish » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:42 pm

use tape? :D

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Re: Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

Post by maz » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:48 pm

The L1+ is great for just a simple slamming of a master fader. it does increase a little low end, but you probably want some kind of eq for that instead. It's also great to use to listen to a 24 bit mix in 16bit dithered.

The C4 (these are all Waves plugs, BTW) has some pretty good down and dirty quick settings for this purpose too.

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Re: Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

Post by the_riff » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:56 pm

maz wrote:The L1+ is great for just a simple slamming of a master fader. it does increase a little low end, but you probably want some kind of eq for that instead. It's also great to use to listen to a 24 bit mix in 16bit dithered.

The C4 (these are all Waves plugs, BTW) has some pretty good down and dirty quick settings for this purpose too.
Yeah I had both the L1 and L2 when I was working on a PC, but now I'm on a MAC and I've been missing those. Might have to break down and buy them again :x

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Re: Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

Post by maz » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:06 pm

Yeah but TRacks is supposed to be pretty cool- I think like you said you probably need some user settings. Out of all the presets on all the pieces of gear in the all the world, only 8 of them are usable.

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Re: Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

Post by misterock » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:07 pm

Yeah, I've been using this and like it for rough mixes:

Ren Comp - just a touch of opto
Ren EQ 6 as required
C4 even dB boost
L1+
PAZ Analyzer

Since I started using this and comparing my favorite mixes on the PAZ, my rough mixes have improved 100%.

Nothing beats an experienced mixer on real gear and a great mastering engineer!

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Re: Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

Post by the_riff » Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:25 pm

misterock wrote:Yeah, I've been using this and like it for rough mixes:

Ren Comp - just a touch of opto
Ren EQ 6 as required
C4 even dB boost
L1+
PAZ Analyzer

Since I started using this and comparing my favorite mixes on the PAZ, my rough mixes have improved 100%.

Nothing beats an experienced mixer on real gear and a great mastering engineer!
What exactly does the PAZ analyzer do?

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Re: Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

Post by misterock » Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:37 pm

Download from this website http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/programs/PA ... _Analyzer/

"Perfect for mastering, trouble-shooting, environmental analysis and more. See more of what your audio is really made of. See peak or RMS frequency content and levels quickly for evaluating the 'spread' of the source. Includes a Stereo Position Display. PAZ uses wavelet techniques (as opposed to FFTs) to provide users with optimal graphic accuracy. Individual bands update independently for the fastest response and consequently increased accuracy and resolution.

PAZ offers two distinctive real-time audio-analysis displays in addition to Peak/RMS metering: A distinctive continuous-graph Frequency Display - showing 52 bands most closely resembling the ear's constant Q critical frequency bands. A wavelet-based real-time analysis including RMS or Peak modes with dual channel or total-stereo-energy graphing from DC to Nyquist, and unweighted, C- and A- weighting modes. Optional resolution in 10Hz steps can be shown for precise analysis below 250Hz for a total of 68 bands. The display can be zoomed into any area of the graph, all the way to -80dBFS. Level analysis can be saved to a text file.

Level meters include L/R peak and summed average (RMS) display, with individually re-settable peak hold values. For fast operation, you can select just the meter you need from Analyzer, Pan, or VU - either all together, or each separately.

The Stereo Position Display shows how energy is spread into the stereo field, including anti-phase information, all in an intuitive real-time vector display. This meter is unlike a phase meter, and can help you visualize the energy distributed in the stereo image. You can run PAZ analyzer on a DSP card in RealTime with the new MultiRack utility. Load MultiRack onto your AudioMedia card and use it in parallel with Pro-Tools for realtime analysis of Pro-Tools sessions.

PAZ is currently non-compatible with SDII running on AudioMedia II cards."


I love this thing. I import a mix I like. Create a 2nd master fader, and compare things. You can look at the frequency make-up of individual tracks. You can see what kick & bass frequencies are competing.

Use this after you use your ears though, meters are not the gospel. Bit it is fun to challenge yourself!

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Re: Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

Post by MASSIVE Mastering » Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:35 pm

Some decent analog hardware is going to set you back less than Waves for PT...
John Scrip - MASSIVE Mastering

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Re: Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

Post by @?,*???&? » Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:00 am

misterock wrote:Since I started using this and comparing my favorite mixes on the PAZ, my rough mixes have improved 100%.
A frequency analyzer is a real eye opener. I know Joe Chiccarelli used to tour around studios with his 7 band (I seem to recall that's all it had) spectrum analyzer and he had a particular 'picture' all his mixes would look like, but he'd be referencing other mixes constantly. The eye opener for me was looking at the waveforms of 'Pop' by U2 and realizing that there was little above 14-15K happening on that disc. Really weird. I know the mixes I've done and the mastering of discs I like are all pretty flat on up to 20K.

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Re: Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

Post by AdamO » Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:37 am

Jeff:

I am very much interested in what you are talking about, however I have no clue what that is. What do you mean "flat on up to 20k"?
-Adam
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Re: Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

Post by misterock » Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:43 am

Without question, the Paz has trained me to cut everything above 15 and below 30 in most cases. I am recording mostly classic rock/punk type stuff. This might not work for hiphop or special club mixes if you need to drive large subs.

You need to try the PAZ to fully understand, it is a very cool, useful tool. If you have ears of gold, you might not need it.

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Re: Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

Post by I'm Painting Again » Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:06 am

any plug-in I've ever put on a master fader in a daw app has sounded bad to me..the thing thats helped the most with "mastering" out of a daw app is sending it to a quality 2track RTR..I use a 1960's pro Ampex deck with 456 calibrated at +3..the apparent volume becomes much louder and closer to a commercial record..the eq curve gives all the tracks a unifying sonic signature..the highs become rolled off at the top and smoother in general..compresses in the way natural to tape..the machine helps to control the screwed up way digital recording handles transients..Its not an easy learning curve ..took about 9 months to get the machine up to spec..but it was pretty inexpensive for what it does..I think all in all i spent arond 500$ for the machine, testtape, parts and bench gear to calibrate it..

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Re: Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

Post by misterock » Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:27 pm

As much as I'd love to get into tape, I just don't have the time. So maybe tape's inherent frequency response rolls off the high's and lows, unfortunately, unless I break out an old 4-track from the attic, I'm sol.

Much of the technology developed has definately been made to emulate tape, but the fact is, digital is the new frontier, that is not to bash tape, but in 50 years, hard drives will be the sound people are looking for. Evolution.

I wish I had it all, the time, the money. I try to use what I have! If I had the cash and time, I would buy a 2" and a 1/2" and every piece of outboard gear I fancied....

Until then, it's PT & Waves.

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Re: Mastering out of Pro Tools... Advice?

Post by @?,*???&? » Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:07 pm

AdamO wrote:Jeff:

I am very much interested in what you are talking about, however I have no clue what that is. What do you mean "flat on up to 20k"?
-Adam
Larry should pay me to write an article on this for TapeOp.

Essentially, what a sound recordist should strive to do is preserve 'real sound' in the range of human hearing. Various equipment decisions allow us to do this with varying degrees of success.

In looking at a frequency analyzer of a recording, one can look at what frequencies are prevalent, which are louder, which are quieter in the complex waveform of the recording. We all eq differently, we all use a diverse array of equipment, but with regard to frequency content, we are all going to have different levels at different frequencies based upon how we hear and what we gravitate toward.

Realize this is all a function what frequencies are in the instrumentation of the tracks we are recording or those that are already recorded. Learning those ranges of different instruments make our mic choices smarter and our eq decisions more critical.

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