Drummers... another stupid qestion.

[phantom power]

Me again. I've been playing shitty drums for a long time now and have decided to try and step it up. Both the drums themselves and my technique.

The main problem is my kick. I bury the beater. You know the type. Well I don't want to anymore. I know it's going to take a lot of practice to reverse this but, I wanted to know if any of you have any tips. Are there any types of pedals that help with this? Or can I set the pedal up differently to help compensate?

thanks -AE

[Zeppelin4Life]

As a drummer, I actually think its A GOOD THING to bury the beater. because you always 'feel' the drum under your foot. but dont take my word, many drummers such as Steve Gadd and Steve Smith do this. unless your playing jazz, and/or have a very boomy bass drum, you will not change the sound to a noticeable extent. thats a bunch of crap. you will get much better control if you keep it rested upon the drum rather than flying back at you. with that said, learn how NOT TO do it too, just because if your doing jazz or feel its muffling the drum. make sure you sit on about a right angle over the pedal so you dont strait nething unneccesairily..have fun..my $.02

[blabgoo]

Thats an easy question.. Well to me.. Just tighten up your action (springs)
The harder it is to push the less able you will be to do it.

Also by positioning the drum farther from you, it will require it to be more of an ankle action than a hip action. I have noticed that people who tend to really slam their pedals are right on top of them so its like stepping on something.

Hope this helps...

Nicole

[eeldip]

ahhh. i no likie that technique. actually i take it back.. i use it if i want to make a different sort of kick sound.

the trick is to come up with a couple ways to get that pedal to hit the kick.

the way that i do it is by changing where on the pedal i push on... towards the head and away from the head.

also, i vary the ratio of how much pressure i put on the pedal through the action of the foot and the leg.

i am really not describing this well. sorry, i do it without thinking... i have no idea what i am doing.

do you rest your heel? maybe dont do that...

[Bedouin]

Play heel down, and use a snap motion with your ankle like you do with your wrists and the sticks. I definitely think it makes a difference in tone; you allow your drum to breathe and resonate. My bass drum sounds very full. Play off your kit, not through it.

[bad_dude_69]

i personally think it is bad technique to leave the beater against the kick. you wouldn't do that with your snare, would 'ya? i have problems with foot control as well and find it helpful to play a standard 4/4 (or 5/4, if you're that kind) and gradually rotate the kick around the whole beat in 8th note incriments while keeping steady with the hands. i think being mindful of your foot and concentrating on it for a couple practice sessions will definitely yeild some good results.

[SKEETER]

I play drums, but that is not my main instrument. I have played bass and lead guitar in bands, and I gotta tell you, I like drummers that play simple steady beats with hammers. I played bass in band with a VERY gifted jazz drummer, this guy could do some amazing things. However, he played with q-tips. I could never hear the kick, or feel it. I am playing lead guitar in a band now, and the drummer plays with hammers, I love to be set up close to the drums so I can feel the kick through the stage. He WHOMPS that kick drum, does it very tastefully. I much prefer hearing a guy trying to bash the head in rather than someone that is afraid he is going to dent something. Nothing like playing "Mustang Sally" and feeling the kick shake the floor.

[spankenstein]

They are completely different sounds and I think they are both valuable. I'm a pretty crappy drummer though so take that for what it's worth.

On a slower open part I try to pull it off and then during faster tighter section the dead thwack is what sounds best.

[JohnDavisNYC]

for straightahead jazz, you have to play heels down and bounce the beater, unless you want to mash it for an accent or something... for my tastes it never sounds right to hear a rock drummer bouncing the beater, something about the lack of power (not using the weight of your leg to get the sound) and ring of the drum doesn't sit well with me. also, to play heel down and bounce the beater, you generally have to have the head tuned high enough to have sufficient rebound. also, different types of beaters bounce differently. if someone wants to be able to do both, they should, but i don't feel that one way is necessarly better than the other. for recording, i prefer when someone burys the beater, as long as they do it consistently, have a good sound and don't get that shitty chatter when the beater tries to bounce but can't from the weight of your leg on the pedal... you know the sound i'm talkling about. i've played with some truly great drummers and they can all play both ways and do so depending on the aesthetic and technical requirements of the music. my favourite sound lately has been my (well, jojo's... but it's at my house) 80's Sonor HiLite kick with a powerstroke and no muffling. tuned low and burying the beater. enough tone, tons of punch. but sucks for jazz unless you tune it up.

john

[Zeppelin4Life]

for straightahead jazz, you have to play heels down and bounce the beater, unless you want to mash it for an accent or something... for my tastes it never sounds right to hear a rock drummer bouncing the beater, something about the lack of power (not using the weight of your leg to get the sound) and ring of the drum doesn't sit well with me. also, to play heel down and bounce the beater, you generally have to have the head tuned high enough to have sufficient rebound. also, different types of beaters bounce differently. if someone wants to be able to do both, they should, but i don't feel that one way is necessarly better than the other. for recording, i prefer when someone burys the beater, as long as they do it consistently, have a good sound and don't get that shitty chatter when the beater tries to bounce but can't from the weight of your leg on the pedal... you know the sound i'm talkling about. i've played with some truly great drummers and they can all play both ways and do so depending on the aesthetic and technical requirements of the music. my favourite sound lately has been my (well, jojo's... but it's at my house) 80's Sonor HiLite kick with a powerstroke and no muffling. tuned low and burying the beater. enough tone, tons of punch. but sucks for jazz unless you tune it up.

john

right,
and chances are if you're playing rock or other aggressive, punchy music your going to have somehting muffling your bass drum anyway (pillow, blanket, w/e). Its typical to see jazz or softer rock using unmuffled, smaller drums. more sensitive and more resonance at lower volumes.

[JohnDavisNYC]

exactly. an 18" bass drum with full coated heads on both sides and no muffling and a wool beater, i'd like to see someone TRY to bury the beater on those. part of the reason that the beater bounces on a drum like that as opposed to a modern 'rok' setup is that it's actually tuned like a drum... odd. a 24" kick with an evans eq3 head, a pillow, a DW pedal and an ebony ported head won't rebound right no matter what.

john

[thethingwiththestuff]

I like drummers that play simple steady beats with hammers. I played bass in band with a VERY gifted jazz drummer, this guy could do some amazing things. However, he played with q-tips. I could never hear the kick, or feel it. I am playing lead guitar in a band now, and the drummer plays with hammers,

dude, you call it an axe, dont you? you totally do.

i'm almost unable to bury the beater, my 24" kick is completely open and boomy and ringy, and there's too much bounce for a normal hit to stay up against the head. it would have to be a special kind of effect for me to choke it that way. i cant understand muffling drums to get "thud" sounds, and i'm comfortable enough with my masculinity to not pound my defenseless, innocent drums.

[Zeppelin4Life]

im just gonna throw this out here:

the pressure inside the drum has everything to do with bounce. If you take the (reso) head off, or cut a hole it in, pressure will really decrease. this will make the beater NOT be as fast to release off the head. try it..take the reso off your BD.

and yes, there is definetly no right or wrong way. ive never had anyone yell at me for burying the beater...but then again im usually the one yelling at the guitarists....everyones afraid of my perfectionism..I used to have my guitarist bend his 7th fret on the G until it hit E on my tuner....at a perfect E....i am a sicko..ok
nobody cares

[cgarges]

I actually think its A GOOD THING to bury the beater. because you always 'feel' the drum under your foot. but dont take my word, many drummers such as Steve Gadd and Steve Smith do this.

Steve Smith does both. Vinnie Coliauta does both. Peter Erskine is a MASTER at doing both. I recommend learning to do both.

That having been said, I rarely leave the beater on the head, whether I'm playing with Frank Kimbrough or Don Dixon. Either way, no one's complained about the way the bass drum sounds--in fact it's usually the opposite. But that's what works for me. It's easier to get a bigger sound out of a well-tuned drum that way.

Here's a couple of tricks to try to help your foot develop control over your pedal:

Remove the spring from your pedal, then practice getting as many rebounds as you can off of the bass drum head. This is really hard at first, but when you can finally get a constant stream of steady notes just by the rebound, without the springs on, you'll be amazed at how much easier it is to control your bass drum pedal.

Also try practicing this pattern. It's really great for foot coordination because it goes through all the possible combinations: left before right, right before left, both together, and neither.
In 4/4: Quarter notes in your left foot. Right foot plays two eighths, eighth rest, eighth, quarter, two eighths, (new measure) eighth rest, eighth, quarter, two eighths, eighth rest, eighth, (new measure) quarter, two eighths, eighth rest, eighth, quarter, and repeat.

It's a hemiola of three eighth notes (only two played) in the right foot against quarters in your left foot. This is especially cool for working on heel-toe (or toe-heel) doubles.

Of course, a real badass gets this down with either foot playing either pattern.

Hope this helps.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Zeppelin4Life]

get Gary Chester's 'The New Breed'...after you cry because you cant do the first page, work on the bass drum solo stuff...chop chop chopsssss

the book is rediculous...offbeat hand coordination with the hihat playing a solo and the bass drum doing samba paterns..

but a few weeks with that book and u could literally play any foot coordination..its like the missing link.

now...8th note hand pattern..and tripplets on te bass drum..

then try a waltz like

bass, hat, hat (foots) *tripplets

while doing 8th note ride patern (straight)

my head hurts