Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

general questions, comments and ideas about recording, audio, music, etc.
numberthirty
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Re: Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

Post by numberthirty » Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:48 pm

Don't get me wrong, I think all of the Ramones records are brilliant. That said, the I was talking about re-recording great records. If anyone would embrace Johnny's notion that his full stacks had to wide open, it seems like Rick Rubin would be the guy. Also, whoever mentioned Superdrag re-recording Headtrip is dead on. Their last record(mostly self recorded as I recall) is just amazing.

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Re: Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

Post by soundguy » Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:58 pm

these discussions always boil down to debates about everyones opinion about the music, which is fine I guess. I love the hendrix catalog but eddie kramer was just in the right place at the right time and if he was "figuring it out" at the time, thats fine, but those records are a fucking MESSSSS. IF you like them or hate them cool, but the drums are just a perfect example of what comb filtering on a poorly mic'd drum kit can sound like. Compare black sabbath records done the same year, where's the bass on the kramer stuff? The guy was just a total hack who was in the right place at the right time. Track down a copy of Buddy Miles "them chhanges" which is a ludicrous sounding record tracked in 1970. Compare it to the stuff kramer recorded with buddy miles in 1970, its laughable. We all like what we like and there are definitely worse records from the period, but the way kramer is celebrated is just wholly out of line with what I hear when I listen to those records.

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Re: Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

Post by red cross » Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:24 pm

I think the Smiths catalogue could have been recorded a little better. I wish Mark Linett had recorded Smile on tape and edited the sections together instead of using Pro Tools. I wish Rudy van Gelder could have engineered Let It Be at Englewood Cliffs. I wish Morrissey coulda worked with Phil Spector. That would be some fuckin' trip.

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Re: Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

Post by elloweez » Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:18 pm

Doolittle by the Pixies.

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Re: Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

Post by numberthirty » Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:18 pm

To me, the thing about Eddie Kramer is this: It always seems that records are good in spite of him as opposed to because of him. I can't think of one record where I felt like his work could not be outdone by other people working at the time. Think of Daniel Lanois, certain records worked on are so well done I can't see any of his peers making a better record(equally good yes, better, probably not)

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Re: Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

Post by johnny7 » Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:25 pm

Early Buzzcocks. Is it Lipstick that is so bright that I bleed everytime I hear it? Don't get me wrong I love the band,song,performance etc

J7

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Re: Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

Post by soundguy » Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:47 pm

numberthirty wrote:To me, the thing about Eddie Kramer is this: It always seems that records are good in spite of him as opposed to because of him. I can't think of one record where I felt like his work could not be outdone by other people working at the time.
exactly. I do like the traffic record he did, but to me that sounds exactly like court of the crimson king and there isnt a single special thing about it to me. George Chkiantz, Chris Huston, Andy Johns and Eddie Kramer all engineered parts of LZ2, kramer mixed the record. I think kramer might have engineered heartbreaker, LLM, ramble on and bring it on home. All sound cool, but compared to the other tracks on there the drums dont stand up to me at all and he's working with the best drummer on earth. This is all subjective of course, but in my arrogance I could walk into any studio with that exact gear with those bands and just do a better job than that guy. Where his recordings sound cool, you can ALWAYS find a problem and thats just not the case with other engineers who people never talk about. You cant blame kramer for riding the wave of publicity that came with his career but in response to his relationship with a famous dead guy its really worth stating that he's just not all that and never was.

I love the hendrix records, but hendrix could have recorded them himself and they wouldnt have sounded any different...

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Re: Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

Post by takeout » Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:15 am

BJohnston wrote:...Bad Brains- I Against I...
Hell no. Leave my adolescence alone, please and thanks.

Maybe that record didn't sound "good" to some ears (whatever that's supposed to mean), but it has "a sound".

I do agree with the Michael Penn nomination though. March demands a remix. Perhaps in the box set?

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Re: Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

Post by Scodiddly » Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:35 am

I don't generally have engineering quibbles with my favorite albums... but there are some near-favorites, things that I wanted to like. But those are mostly bad arranging or whatever.

What I'd like to have is an opportunity to re-engineer all the crappy albums recorded at the local studios by really good bands that were friends of mine. Too many good people spent their hard-earned kroners at the various local studios, lost the bass sound when the engineer wanted to mix 5 different amps together, got swamped in late 80's digital reverb, etc.

Experimentation is good, but most of the time you just want to put up a reasonably appropriate mic and record the thing the way it sounds, instead of screwing it all up because you read about some trick in Mix Magazine.

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Re: Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

Post by Brett Siler » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:04 am

One thing that always bothered me about the first Ramones album is the bass panned completely to one side and the guitar completely in the other. I first noticed it when I was listening to it in headphones and it was really annoying, Other than that I like the production on it. I think the gritty sound of it suits the album.

I kinda like the crappy production of old school punk albums. It is part of the charm of that music I think. I just bought the 20 years of Dischord and man that first CD had some shitty production on it, but I loved it!

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Re: Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

Post by KennyLusk » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:34 am

I agree with everything Mr. Dave said with exception to the part about David Gilmore. I'm a fan of all of his expressions on all the Pink Floyd albums.

Also, AC/DC's For Those About to Rock (IMO) sounded great. But you're right, the albums recorded after Back in Black (excluding FTATR) were not even close.

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Re: Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

Post by mjau » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:40 am

As much as I already love it, I'd like to see Summer Days, Summer Nights by the Beach Boys redone. There's some great stuff on that album hinting at what was to come a year or two later, but it's still fighting the Surfin' Safari type production of the earlier years.

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Re: Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:13 am

there's too many records from the last 10 years that would need a sensible remastering so i'll help out dave there.

after that i'd get started remixing sgt peppers and abbey road cause those guys just fucked that shit all up the first time.




what?

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Re: Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

Post by takeout » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:27 am

Wasn't it Karl Wallinger that redid Sgt. Pepper's... from top to bottom, just for practice?

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Re: Re-recording a great (or not so great) album

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:36 am

that rings the vaguest of bells in what passes for my memory. but he was trying to recreate the whole thing, right? no way he had access to the actual tapes?????

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