Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

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Knights Who Say Neve
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Re: Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

Post by Knights Who Say Neve » Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:03 pm

Milkmansound wrote:1:


TapeOp is a bit of a weird mix. It can be brutally honest, but it can
also be painfully egotistical. Lots of indie work is spotlighted where
the people are just too cool for their own good but really aren't any
good at all. For a long time there was that pervading attitude across
the magazine of "if it hasn't passed through tubes it's gotta be crap"
and "if it's passed through a computer then that's not real recording"
-- however in the past year or so they've started to come around a bit.
I still find the actual meat of the content somewhat hit and miss, but
still read it regularly for the variety of opinions and ideas. I don't
have to agree with everything I read. :) I appreciate it being less
glossy and advertiser-driven than some of the other rags.

David

--
David Das / Nashville, TN
david@d... / www.daviddas.com

2:
actually my biggest beef with TapeOp is the layout - it feels like it
was laid out (fonts, etc.) by an amateur and it really hurts my eyes
(and head) to read it. The content for the most part is fairly
informative and interesting, but I know what you mean about sometimes
being "too cool" for it's own good. And what's with the anti-Steely Dan
thing?!?

3:
Well I'm sure no one really cares what either of us thinks about Steely Dan.
That wasn't my point. These guys had previously been known to listen to Steely
Dan without becoming ill. Suddenly, out of the blue, they hated them. Now I
know why.

They were only able to switch from their 1/2" Otari 8 track to Nuendo only when
it became clear the TapeOp allowed the use of computers.

I think TapeOp is fine, taken with a grain of salt.

Philip



I really do not see this as a trashing at all. The rest of the related threads (about 20 or so) are people saying how great Tape Op is. Hardly something to start a war over...
This hardly qualifies as a "trashing" in my book either. That last comment (3) is a bit snotty, but whatever. We can take criticism, can't we?
Lots of indie work is spotlighted where
the people are just too cool for their own good but really aren't any
good at all.
There's a grain of truth here certainly- unfocused, half-assed albums that have a good concept or are made by cool people will get better reviews than the music alone would justify. Tape Op is not immune to this.
"What you're saying is, unlike all the other writers, if it was really new, you'd know it was new when you heard it, and you'd love it. <b>That's a hell of an assumption</b>". -B. Marsalis

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Re: Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

Post by Mark Alan Miller » Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:45 pm

Johnna wrote:I hope there is a more positive attitude somewhere in TapeOp's forums than this vitriolic, paranoid shit.... seriously.
There is.

Any culture that has open discussions of societal behavior, etiquette, and such, like what is going on here, is naturally prone to balance.

If you concluded that this thread is anything other than that, I can say that my participation in it is no more than resounding support for being non-exclusive, non-elitist, and as open as possible. If somehow I came across as paranoid, well, that's not the intent with which I am writing. :)
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Re: Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

Post by misterock » Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:36 pm

I signed up just to have a look, it took a day or 2 to be approved, then they sent me this, which I found a bit radical...Whatever, fuck that board.


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Re: Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

Post by Johnna » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:02 pm

Yeah fuck em... fuck em all the MOTU-Mac pony tailed, TapeOp bashing, Steely Dan loving, over 40, computer nub geek losers.
Did I miss someone ?
Later ... much later

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Re: Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

Post by Bear's Gone Fission » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:10 pm

Dumbasses. The gear reviews editor of Tape Op is an unrepentant user of digital recording devices, and he has not suffered the pains of any inquisition in how many years now? If there's any overriding gear philosophy of the mag, it's "whatever works."

I think they're just ticked off that not all of us like Steely Dan. (Mind you, there was that interminably number of letters in one issue regarding the running gag about the dildo namesakes, a great many of them pro. Hey, some people don't seem to mind Wonder Bread, either . . . )

Hmm. Alphajerk is on MOTU/Mac. I wonder if he's run across that forum in his journeys. That could be mighty fun to watch.

Bear

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Re: Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

Post by Mr. Dipity » Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:54 pm

Milkmansound wrote: I really do not see this as a trashing at all. The rest of the related threads (about 20 or so) are people saying how great Tape Op is. Hardly something to start a war over...
How anticlimactic. I must confess, I agree with:
Lots of indie work is spotlighted where the people are just too cool for their own good,
Understandably though - Tapeop the magazine is obviously a community, with the tastes of those who create it. There's a definite focus on the kind of stuff thats in the cd players of the people who decide what goes in, and what stays out. I started writing some stuff to submit myself, but I got discouraged when I read about how many hundreds of articles they have to choose through for each issue :cry:, it's probably going to go on Modern Musician instead.

the rest of the post sounds like someone just trying to be contrary, especially this damning-with-faint-praise:
I appreciate it being less glossy and advertiser-driven than some of the other rags.
WTF else is he reading otherwise?

The layout is fucking fine.


I vote we bum-rush them anyway, and do our best no computers/only toobz/too-cool indie cred/Steely Dan vomiting best.

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Re: Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

Post by mistersalty » Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:09 pm

Taking this little flame war into account, it just smacks of being an analog versus digital tirade. Don't rag on a format or circuit you aren't familiar with, just learn it and realize that it all has potential. There's a lot of people that only produce, engineer and perform all their recordings by themselves or with a selective group of people. This makes them more narrow in their experiences, arguably.

Take a recording class, sit in on a session, talk shop with some other engineers. When you socialize a bit and collaborate, it expands your horizons. Sitting on the internet and flaming each other over our choice of formats is pretty damn counterproductive and silly. Listen to what people have to say and listen to how something works instead of what you read or heard about it. Perhaps in the context of its reviewed application it sucked goat balls.

And how did this degenerate into a "I hate Steely Dan because they're digitally recorded now." thread. Hey, most studios are primarily digital now and I wouldn't say SD are anti-analog. Hell, over 90% of their damn catalog was done on a 24 track 2 inch tape machine, I'm pretty sure. I agree entirely with the poster who said this is just a pissing contest of who can be the most caustic and cynical, having nothing to do with what you like to listen to and/or use for recording/mixing.

And please, be good to yourself - and each other. :roll:
Honor thy error as a hidden intention.

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Re: Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

Post by tiger vomitt » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:14 am

to those that have asked or replied, there aint a damn thing wrong with being over 40, or being any age for that matter.

being 40+, ignorant, anal, bitter and kinda clueless in general is definitely a bad thing though.

old people are way cool to me. old jaded people are not cool. ponytails are way too often worn in sync with bitter attitudes.

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Re: Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

Post by goldenechos » Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:06 pm

stillafool wrote:These guys were more than just musicians -- they were part of a movement --- which I can't say for your "experimental indie rock" -- Bah!!!
We can't let old farts like you in on our revolution, dude!
Get a clue :)

tony echos

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Re: Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

Post by Fieryjack » Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:25 pm

Who cares if Tape Op is getting slammed on another site? Tape Op stands on its own (at least the magazine) as a totally unique way of looking at recording: people, gear, places, etc....

Tape Op is cool because it pulls together so many different peoples opinions and practices in recording. There's a LOT of room for these opinions, even for those who don't like Tape Op!
Lots of indie work is spotlighted where
the people are just too cool for their own good but really aren't any
good at all.
I happen to agree with this quote (at least as it applies to this forum) 100%. I am so sick of people who are waiving the "indie" flag because it makes them feel more superior or because it is a somehow "enlightened genre". Bullshit. It's just like the people who needed the "Alternative" label in the 80s, and makes me realize how insecure these people are.

I happen to think "Folk" is a much more sincere and challenging genre, my $.02. It might not be as cool though :roll:

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Re: Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

Post by ieatonlyshelfish » Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:59 pm

?I happen to think "Folk" is a much more sincere and challenging genre, my $.02. It might not be as cool though ?

I happen to think that not confining yourself to predetermined styles is neater than either. Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of low profile or hard to pin progressive music gets the ?indie? label. Of course there are uninspired cookie cutter bands out there. There are sincere and insincere versions of any genre of any medium. The only constant is that you cant just cast aside an entire movement one way or another. A lot like 40 year olds, and digital recording...

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Re: Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

Post by stillafool » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:02 pm

Why no articles on the Grateful Dead? Come on guys. :?:

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Re: Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

Post by JASIII » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:05 pm

stillafool wrote:Why no articles on the Grateful Dead? Come on guys. :?:
I've always liked the Dead. A lot. Saw them quite a few times. BUT, their studio stuff is not all that extraordinary. I'm not sure what kind of article Tapeop could print on the Dead. Their live sound stuff is more cutting edge IMO.
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Re: Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

Post by stillafool » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:13 pm

I'm just kidding. I hate the Grateful Dead. Come on guys -- lighten up. This forum rules. Granted, there's a hip-rock-and-roll smart ass element in here that is just as stultifying in it's own way as the boring petite bourgeios attitude you might find else where. But I read this forum every day, even the forums written by people I don't like and whose music I don't like.

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Re: Tape Op trashed on Motu Mac listserv

Post by earl parameter » Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:54 pm

"actually my biggest beef with TapeOp is the layout - it feels like it
was laid out (fonts, etc.) by an amateur and it really hurts my eyes
(and head) to read it."


what a dick.

jb's layout is fucking great and i like the fact that he hasn't ever made an attempt to get flashy or pompous with it like nearly every other mag in the field. it serves the character of tapeop perfectly and allows for whats important THE PRINT to come through. one of the many reasons i stopped reading everything else years ago was because of their layout. doing whatever they could to make their mag look appealing by bombarding you with as many colors and irrelevant photos as they could fit on the page with about a paragraph of shit no one cares about. jb obviously knows what hes doing and what important.

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