John Bonham hour

[neve1073]

I'm gonna go out on the limb here. We're sure these are actually Bonham tracks?

I was wondering that too. I mean, the playing sounds great to me, but just how would you know?

Leigh

As George Martin says, "all you need is ears."

[drumsound]

I'm gonna go out on the limb here. We're sure these are actually Bonham tracks? Maybe since they're tracks that didin't make the records but the pocket doesn't seem right. The double eight kik grooves are rushed and so is the space between the kik and snare. At least on the first few I listened to. Again maybe they're bad out takes but it sounds more like someone trying to sound like Bonham than the master himself. Never heard Bonham rushed an uneven pocket esp between kik and snare. So unlike him. Could be wrong. The snare sound doesn't seem right either. While we're at it the whole kit sounds wrong. More like someone trying to make it sound like Bonham. Like I said I could be wrong but something ain't right.

Listen to the touch on the hat and snare especially. I'm sure it's Bonzo.

If you heard the other instruments, I'd bet you wouldn't think things sound rushed...

These could also not be the keepers.

[kellyd]

Well I'm going to go with these aren't keepers.
As far as the sound, this has to be a compressed talkback w/ extra mics. Maybe some rooms. It is not the sound on the records or even close. This is not the quote unqoute classic Bonham sound. Just because it has room ambience don't mean it is. Yes I hear the Speed King squeeking but then any drummer who uses one gets the same squeek. BTW, I know many drummers who grunt when they play.
Playing wise, over the last 28 yrs I've played with quite a few smoking drummers who can play the gig. James Kottack of the evil Kingdom Come can do a pretty good Bonham when he wants to and I'm not talking about the records they did. There are many others. No they are not Bonahm but they can fake it pretty well. So if they are Bonham and not his best that's cool. I'm only raising the question. I'm a huge Bonham fan. From the originality of his playing to his touch and his kit sound.
One last thing, someone posted that they lined up Fool in The Rain. Are you saying that stoke for stroke this is the exact take that is on the record?
The only 2 Zep records I don't own is In Thru the Out Door and Coda. I have listend to those songs quite a bit though. If I had Fool In The Rain I would try matching them up. It they are outtakes how can they line up stroke for stroke? Sorry for being an unbeliever. And yes I have ears. That's why I've raised the doubt.

[cgarges]

chris, when you gonna tell them what you heard at my house?

I didn't want to spill the beans.

But wow. Just wow.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Zeppelin4Life]

Well I'm going to go with these aren't keepers.
As far as the sound, this has to be a compressed talkback w/ extra mics. Maybe some rooms. It is not the sound on the records or even close. This is not the quote unqoute classic Bonham sound. Just because it has room ambience don't mean it is. Yes I hear the Speed King squeeking but then any drummer who uses one gets the same squeek. BTW, I know many drummers who grunt when they play.
Playing wise, over the last 28 yrs I've played with quite a few smoking drummers who can play the gig. James Kottack of the evil Kingdom Come can do a pretty good Bonham when he wants to and I'm not talking about the records they did. There are many others. No they are not Bonahm but they can fake it pretty well. So if they are Bonham and not his best that's cool. I'm only raising the question. I'm a huge Bonham fan. From the originality of his playing to his touch and his kit sound.
One last thing, someone posted that they lined up Fool in The Rain. Are you saying that stoke for stroke this is the exact take that is on the record?
The only 2 Zep records I don't own is In Thru the Out Door and Coda. I have listend to those songs quite a bit though. If I had Fool In The Rain I would try matching them up. It they are outtakes how can they line up stroke for stroke? Sorry for being an unbeliever. And yes I have ears. That's why I've raised the doubt.

well if these aren't 'real' I certianly have plenty of outtakes that are . included with that CD are some of these. thats enough to convice me, anyway.

[aeijtzsche]

The "Fool in the Rain" takes are as released on record. Exact same tracks. It's absolutely Bonham.

[Wonderland]

These tracks are so definitely Bonzo.

I don't know how even a mildly interested Zep fan couldn't recognize this fact immediately.

The suggestion that these cuts aren't Bonham, actually kind of cracks me up.

I mean, even the grunting sound like Bonzo's voice!

I really don't get that something about the tracks "doesn't sound right".

You don't think that sounds like Bonham's impeccably tuned kit & signature snare sound?

Man, I must've been listening to a different Led Zeppelin all these years, 'cuz from where I sit, it sounds exactly right.

Sure, many, many drummers have tried to imitate Bonzo, but I don't think any have ever succeeded...not even close.

And I certainly wasn't fooled by Kingdom Come, who probably tried the hardest of any band to sound like the mighty Zep.

As for the rushing...

Fact 1: Zep didn't use click tracks, they played the song.

Fact 2: HUMAN DRUMMERS RUSH & DRAG.

And so what?

Why people think that every stroke should line up perfectly on a computer grid is way beyond me.
It's so missing the point of what music should be about, which is Feeling & Expression...not perfect computer-like meter.

But, I've always been a believer that some sections of a song should be a little faster or slower, if that's what feels right.

I suppose that's a topic for a whole other thread, though.

Anyway, stop worryin' if it's really Bonzo, 'cuz it is.

Just enjoy the opportunity to hear his swingin' grooves!

[drumsound]

Great post Wonderland! You've hit the nail on the head.

[aeijtzsche]

Why people think that every stroke should line up perfectly on a computer grid is way beyond me.
It's so missing the point of what music should be about, which is Feeling & Expression...not perfect computer-like meter.

Yeah, I thought it was odd that here and other places where these are being discussed, people are saying "Wow, I want to sample these for some killer drum loops" and not "Wow, I'm going to go practice drums so I can be like John Bonham." Backwards.

[kellyd]

First of all I'm 45yrs old and have been listening to Zep for close to 40yrs. There was a time where that's all I listened to. JJP is the reason I started playing bass in the mid 70s.
Secondly I'm not into the whole perfect timing like people locking everything to a grid do today. I never edit drums to the grid. I make them do it again. I remember dynamics and feel. The way it used to be. The rushing I'm talking about is within the same bar. The space between the kiks and the snare. Read the post.
BTW, you can pull and drag a clik regardless if Zep used one or not.

What does crack me up is the fact that the the sonics of these clips are a mess and don't sound like the records and everyone is commenting on how this is so the Bonham sound. So please don't lecture me on the sound of Bonhams kit.

Thirdly, I hated Kingdom Come (the evil Kingdom Come as I posted) but I've played with James and he can do a great Bonham when he wants to. Just because the record was a lame Zep ripp off doesn't change the fact that he is a great drummer who knows a great deal about Bonzo's playing. More than most. I've had the pleasure to have played with many drummers who have 3 plus decades of playing behind them and who grew up and cut their teeth on Zep when it was happening and fresh. Not discovered from their Father's or older brother's collection.
The observations I made were solid and if it is Bonham that doesn't change them.

[Wonderland]

The rushing I'm talking about is within the same bar. The space between the kiks and the snare. Read the post.

So what?

He's still just a person, & people make little mistakes.

There are probably thousands of other things like that, throughout the entire Zep catalog.
We just don't hear them because of all the other music happening around them.

I experienced this same phenomenon yesterday.
Time was wasted debating whether the drum track was "good enough", due to a couple of minor (but, real) time discrepencies "within the same bar".

Well, it was decided to just get a move on, & after the track took shape a little bit, everyone had to think for a minute..."Hey, where was that section, again?"

Because we didn't hear it the same way anymore.

When we solo the drums we'll still hear it, though.

But, that's the point, we're hearing Bonzo out of context, in a way that we usually don't.
So, of course, you're gonna hear little fuck-ups, the cat's naked out there.

But, again, so what?

Personally, I love hearing these things, 'cuz it gives you great perspective on the humanity of a "Rock God".

A little reminder that, at the core of it all, he was just a guy who played drums, you know?

He made little fuck-ups, too...I LOVE that.

And it's Bonzo, & it's awesome!

It's not like Zep was afraid to leave the fuck-ups in, anyway.

The totally blown drum fill somewhere in "Sick Again" comes to mind, on Physical Graffitti.

Check it out, kids, Bonzo choking...but they kept it anyway.

I mean, they didn't even bother with a little edit, you know?

Zeppelin Ruled!

BTW, you can pull and drag a clik regardless if Zep used one or not.

Um...o.k.

What does crack me up is the fact that the the sonics of these clips are a mess and don't sound like the records and everyone is commenting on how this is so the Bonham sound. So please don't lecture me on the sound of Bonhams kit.

Just relax, hotbuck, I did read your post & no one's lecturing anyone.

To my ears, despite the "messy sonics", it's clearly the sound of Bonzo's kit...& Bonzo.

That's all.

Just enjoy them for what they are, which is a cool Zeppelin outtake thing, as opposed to what they are not.

Thirdly, I hated Kingdom Come.

Well, I'm glad we can agree on something.

[Red Rockets Glare]

chris, when you gonna tell them what you heard at my house?

I didn't want to spill the beans.

But wow. Just wow.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Spill IT!!!!!

[daede]

chris, when you gonna tell them what you heard at my house?

I didn't want to spill the beans.

But wow. Just wow.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Spill IT!!!!!

I second the motion. For the second time in this thread- kick down.

[cgarges]

Alright, since Dave brought it up...

Until recently, Dave had copies of drum tracks pulled off THE ORIGINAL MASTER TAPES of "Whole Lotta Love." Dave got these from a pretty cool source and all I've got to say about them is that they're fucking unbelieveable. I've checked out the MP3s posted recently and they can't hold a candle to how completely badass this shit Dave had was. When you first hear it, you're like, "Wow, those guitars sure do sound strange," and then the drums kick in and you realize you're listening to the sound in the room mics.

Before I went up there Dave told me that he would play them for me if I promised to clean my brains off his back wall after I heard it. Metaphorically, he was quite right. I really can't describe how cool this stuff was. This recent stuff is disappointing in light of what I heard last year. Seriously. Not that this recent stuff isn't cool, but its amazing how listening to THAT ONE PERFORMANCE affected me.

By the way, Dave, thanks again for sharing that.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[MoreSpaceEcho]

well i for one am totally jealous. i think fletcher has a copy of that too. question though: you say "until recently, dave had..." did something happen to them? i hope not.