Ignorance

[bigtoe]

'On the flip side I get a lot of punk rockers who will record with me because I am an analogue recordist (or because I don't use PT.)'

when i did only analog 8 track this was one of the main 'selling' points. but the results they liked had little to do with the medium...more to do with folks playing live and enjoying themselves not on the clock.

i agree the guy is a dumbass but protools is a standard. all clients are ignorant to a certain extent...that's why they aren't engineers. if i were to open up a place expecting to eat food and par bills from it...i'd have protools - no questions asked... it's just a no brainer...

if you cater to a specialized niche...well... do what ya will...but realize the GP just aren't apart of it...they eat shit and pay for it.

and shit i've had studio owners call my clients for business...so at least it ain't the other way around...

good luck...

Mike

[Slider]

I used to lose some business because I didn't have digital.
..I bought a standalone HD recorder.
Then I lost some business because I didn't have plugins and grid editing.
...I bought a fancy computer setup.
Now I lose some business because I use Nuendo and not PT.

It's rediculous.
I give up on impressing everybody with gear.
I feel dirty trying to talk up the technology.
There are other things that are so much more important.
I just tell them the facts and if they don't get it, what can I do?

We can't always change the perception of the uninformed public with logical explainations.
Their minds are usually made up.
I love my computer, I didn't just buy it to make others happy.
I do what I need to do my job best.

It really makes me laugh when people think they are getting a better deal recording with someone with PT, when it's sometimes a guy with a digi 001 with shit mic's, shit pre's, and most important of all, NO EXPERIENCE.
But hey... It's pro tools. It must be really expensive, and obviously it must be way better.

I have a friend who has a PT HD3 rig.
If they really have to have it, I'll just book them there and take a hit on what I make.

It's stupid that a computer program is looked at as more important then engineering and producing skills.

Chris, your situation of taking whatever work that comes around, sounds a lot like my situation.
I look at it the same way.

Oh well... back to work.

[nipsy]

next time any clown starts bitching about the lack of pt, sit them down and make them listen to "revolver"......

[Marcus H.]

admittedly, i haven't read the entire thread...sorry if i'm repeating.

i think the thread title really says it. We get this at our studio quite a bit it seems. We have a PT le that we use, but the other engineer pretty much never uses it.... only reason: he is not familiar with it.

almost everytime i have the opportunity i try to explain to people that if their plan is to end up in PT, nothing that we do outside of PT is going to hinder them from doing this. We can get it in the format they want it. I will actually go into detail to explain how PT works with audio files added to the session files...just like copying and pasting text into a Word document. Most people don't see something outside of Word and think, "oh crap....now i'm screwed", they just highlight, click, copy/paste. This, along a few other explanations of how PT really works (in plain english, not technical manual talk), has calmed every fear i've ever encountered with this.

Yes...ignorance is the exact problem. So few people run around throwing the word "Radar" around. And few people have any experience or exposure to working on recordings outside of a DAW that they bought based on sales hype. Until we that know, can show them "how things actually work", then they will continue to praise the "almighty Pro Tools" (whether they know why they do or not).....

i agree....it's ridiculous that someone would turn down an opportunity to work with Chris. That just shows how little they are knowledgeable about when it comes down to it. This is especially ridiculous considering they had heard his work and liked it.....

this whole thing is like someone giving back their paycheck because they wanted it to be signed in blue ink and not black........

[KennyLusk]

next time any clown starts bitching about the lack of pt, sit them down and make them listen to "revolver"......

That's one of the coolest arguments I've ever heard, nipsy.

Nice one!

[toog]

If no one has mentioned it yet, keep in mind that this goes both ways. I have a far harder time as an electronic musician trying to explain what I'm doing to an old-skool tape operator or, god forbid, bassist or guitarist than they do explaining their processes to me.

I once mentioned I had a good idea for a spectral delay trick for a particular songs chorus and the guitarist said "you mean, like one of those DOD boxes?"

[cgarges]

If no one has mentioned it yet, keep in mind that this goes both ways. I have a far harder time as an electronic musician trying to explain what I'm doing to an old-skool tape operator or, god forbid, bassist or guitarist than they do explaining their processes to me.

You mean like, making a volume adjustment?

Chris

[parlormusic]

God I hate when people throw around the ProTools name like it's the ONLY way to record & edit! It's kinda like the people who swear that Bose is the BEST speakers to get.

I'm actually considering having ProTools Free sitting there on my PC just so that I can say that I have PT. I've lost potential clients because I didn't have PT. Obviously they didn't use their ears to gage my workmanship! Just as well, I guess. I have little tolerance for ignorance like that.

[choke3d]

I can't believe I'm gonna throw myself on the sword here, but as someone who's a musician first, recordist second, I think the guy (however misinformed he may be) has every right to ask questions when he's gonna throw down the money. Did he ask you to engineer AND mix, or just engineer? If the guy wants to mix elsewhere, then of course he's gonna want to end up in Pro Tools (since he's gonna go digital, apparently). It's part of YOUR job to educate the guy - if he went behind your back, that's kind of lame, but I would assume he's paying you AND the studio. It's his money, if he goes around looking stupid with the "non-linear analog" comments, so be it.

[cgarges]

engineer AND mix

We have mix dates booked. At least we will when the deposit comes in.

It's part of YOUR job to educate the guy - if he went behind your back, that's kind of lame, but I would assume he's paying you AND the studio.

It's tough to educate the guy when he's not asking me the questions, you know? Maybe if he'd asked me more pertinent questions instead of telling me about his "vocal style" than he wouldn't be worrying about stuff like this.

He's paying me. I'm paying the studio. He shouldn't be calling the studio at all, actually. He didn't even know that place existed until I took him over there.

I just can't believe that someone actually thinks it's impossible to make a volume adjustment without ProTools. That's what's fucking nuts to me. I think if you asked a bunch of people on the street if all the records with fade-outs on them were done by the recording engineer or played that way, a majority (maybe not a large one, but a majority) would know that it was done mechanically. I would think that a musician with any reasonable intelligence would know that you can make a volume change without a screen dsiplaying the waveform.

I'm really to a point where I don't care if I lose the session. I'm really okay with the fact that if this guy thinks that the entire CD of stuff I gave him to listen to was done without any volume manipulation and he's GOT to have something that wasn't achieved in anything he heard in the CD, he can call somebody else. It's still almost two weeks worth of work and that's a bummer, but if that's really this guy's attitude then I really am the wrong guy, ProTools or not.

I'm still amazed at the total stupidity of this particular situation.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[choke3d]

All points taken. Yeah, if he's paying you, he shouldn't be calling the studio. I can absolutely see that if he's talking to you about the project all-in, it could be seen as an insult for him to question your methods (so rant away!).
I'm a graphic designer by trade, been doing it for a while (long before the web). There's an amazing parallel between the graphic design world and the current state of recording. The computer made everyone and their cousin think that they were designers. A good 30% of my work is fixing stuff that somebody's buddy fucked up. So to make my bread, I have to talk "dumb" with a lot of people, then prove to them over and over again why they should just spend some real money to get a real job done. So I understand your frustration, my point (only knowing half the facts) was that as the tools fall into the hands of the masses, we as creative professionals have to continually re-prove ourselves. It sucks, but every time I blow away a client with skills and professionalism, my confidence (and rates!) go up.
Good luck with the situation...

[JGriffin]

I really hope you don't lose this client solely because you don't have pro tools... If you do though, you may be able to file a class action suit against digidesign. now that's a good way to afford a U47!

Yeah, let's just sue any company who manages to market themselves successfully enough to become an "industry standard"...that'll really encourage technological development. Ridiculous.

[joeysimms]

next time any clown starts bitching about the lack of pt, sit them down and make them listen to "revolver"......

.. and then i'll ask you where the george martin, geoff emerick, 1" studer, fairchild, and gorgeous tracking room are..

[nipsy]

next time any clown starts bitching about the lack of pt, sit them down and make them listen to "revolver"......

.. and then i'll ask you where the george martin, geoff emerick, 1" studer, fairchild, and gorgeous tracking room are..

my point exactly, no pro tools.....................................

[nacho459]

next time any clown starts bitching about the lack of pt, sit them down and make them listen to "revolver"......

.. and then i'll ask you where the george martin, geoff emerick, 1" studer, fairchild, and gorgeous tracking room are..

So good!

I got PT because I already knew how to use it and clients and myself wanted the ability to do non linear editing if necessary. I use PT sparingly but I like having it if I need it.

Today most of the clients I get want to do everything on tape so they can brag that they did their album without PT.