Any reason not to crank your mic pre input gain?

[Rolsen]

....just wondering. I was always under the impression that for proper 'gain staging' you want to turn your input gain on your mic pre to just below clipping, no matter what. Seems like I've read a couple posts saying this isn't always the case, but didn't go into it. I use a 57 and a C-1 LDC and I always crank the input gain - does something good or bad happen if I don't?

[Devlars]

...does something good or bad happen if I don't?

Try it both ways and listen to the results you get on the same sound source, mic position, setting, ammount of food in your stomach etc. and tell us what you heard.

[eeldip]

there are a lot of variables to this...

some preamps sound different at different input gains. my presonus pres sound decent enough if i never move that knob past 11 o'clock. but they get noisy and thin past that.

my bellari pre.. which is basically made to be an OD pedal.. well different story.

[Phiz]

The higher you set the gain of your preamplifier, the more non-linear the preamp will be. Depending on your source signal, the design of the preamp, and the sound you are trying to achieve, this non-linearity could sound good or bad.

When trying make very clean recordings, there will be a optimal gain setting that maximizes your signal to noise ratio (SNR). This is because at low gain settings you will have a low SNR due to thermal noise (white noise due to brownian motion in electrical components) and at high gain settings you will loose linearity, thus contributing to the noise figure. At some gain level, additional increase in gain will contribute more to the non-linearity of the preamp than it does to overcomming the thermal noise -- this would be the optimal gain level.

As always use your ears. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[eeldip]

hey phiz, question:

what is it about some preamp designs that are linear at any gain and lower noise at higher gain? at least they are advertised that way:

viz phiz: my earthworks lab series pres claim that.

[KennyLusk]

Damn Phiz, that was beautiful man.

[heylow]

And hey Phiz...

Go into non-linear a little please. What does the linearity/non-linearity contribute/take away? Are we talking frequency response here?

Interesting stuff.



heylow

[Slider]

I ruined the sound of some vocals by hitting an API too hard once.
I wasn't happy about it either.
I would advise caution and careful listening if you do.

[joel hamilton]

This is not a blanket approach that can be applied to every situation with good result. If there is anything like that in this recording business, I have not found it yet....

Knowing when to do ANYTHING and when it is appropriate is more important than anything. That is my opinion, but it seems to be true of any session I have ever done, ever.

When you read something on a message board that says "wow, I cranked my sytek until it was about to explode and it was the best banjo I ever recorded!!!!!" you need to take it with a giant grain of salt for many reasons including this: They didnt follow up that post by saying "man, I really fucked up the vocal on someone's record by freaking out too much with my sytek and they hate me and it sounds like poop."

Anytime you are setting up to record anything, try this: Listen.
I know it sounds stupid, but really. Dont look at anything. Close your eyes if you have to. Dont look at the meters or the peak light or the whatever is telling you to back off a little... Does it sound amazing clicked just past "reasonable level" ? If it does, leave it. If not, back it off a little and see how that affects the sound, again without using any visual indication of the level.

Catalog the results mentally and remember it for the next session. Repeat forever.

[psychicoctopus]

The gain knob on some preamps is just an attenuator. The preamplifier has fixed gain, say 50 dB, and the knob 'crossfades' its output with zero volts. I'm not sure which preamps in particular do this, but it is common enough.

with this design, the input signal level matters more than where the knob is at.

[NeglectedFred]

I have to admit, I love to clip the crap out of a kick for live applications.. Am I hurting the board at all, I'm not clipping anything out the mains.

[neve1073]

Some preamps have a good, usable sound when they are driven really hard. The chandler tg pres for instance. I've heard of people (geoff emerrick) overdriving v72s, but I've never had the balls to do it myself. I have a couple pres that sound like corpse fluid when overdriven.

Bottom line is try it and see (hear) what you think.

[bigtoe]

I ruined the sound of some vocals by hitting an API too hard once.
I wasn't happy about it either.
I would advise caution and careful listening if you do.

i've helped vocals hitting an API too hard!

well... until i listen to it next week and decide i fucked it all up or something...growing pains.

a lot of pres have noise floor issues...i just balance that. the 1272's i have are almost useless on jazz stuff.

Mike

[Marc Alan Goodman]

Exactly, there's something to be said for experimentation. That last high note Joni Mitchel hits on "This Flight Tonight" distorts the crap out of whatever board they were working on, but it just makes the whole thing sound more excited (if you ask me).

I've definately ruined my share of vocal takes by watching levels on the screen instead of listening.

-marc

[vvv]

Anytime you are setting up to record anything, try this: Listen.

That was exactly my first response the question posed.

Now I'm scared!

And yet, being so obvious, it is seemingly sometimes forgotten.

So, as also said: "Repeat forever." (Maybe then we'll remember!)