Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

general questions, comments and ideas about recording, audio, music, etc.
lonesome_tone
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Re: Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

Post by lonesome_tone » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:39 pm

TapeOpLarry wrote:Fuck money. It's all about time. Tape Op gets sent a lot of home made CDs, and most suck.

what ever happened to the 'under the radar' column?

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Re: Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

Post by lonesome_tone » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:52 pm

i think the chili peppers have some ok songs (they are most definitely a singles band) but their album tracks are sheer nonsense. kedis approaches gangsta wannabe levels of misogny and just straight up retardation, and flea bass-shits all over the place, ughh. he's kinda retarded too, in the booklet for a cd reissue of the first gang of four album he basically calls The Edge a fucker or something like that, pretty much out of nowhere, for being influenced by Andy Gill. The drum sounds on that album absolutely SUCK. SUCK. i have a feeling it's the way that guy tunes his kit (pic. snare, probably like tight as shit toms) but the OH sound is super midrangey and one dimensional (they used 57s) and the bass drum is way way overhyped and thumpy. it just doesn't sound good to me. overall it's just painful to listen to, and i dont think i'm being snobby.

i really like john's playing, alot. i know he listens to pretty cool music too, and i like his solo records (esp. the first couple four track ones). it's just really hard to listen to this band, and not because i'd rather listen to hipper than thou shit.

as for albums recorded in houses, why not music from big pink, la woman, led zeppelin? shit that actually stands up?

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Re: Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

Post by lonesome_tone » Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:00 pm

vvv wrote:I believe the last NIN was recorded in a house (the Sharon Tate house,) also, although obviously heavily edited.

Downward Spiral, yes indeed. Although alot of the drums were recorded in other studios, individual hits edited and resequenced, layered, etc. The drum breakdown in 'piggy' is one instance of Trent Reznor in his kitchen actually playing a live kit. As with the RHCP, supreme gear was used even though it was in a house. The record was cut to two Studer 24 trks with extensive pro tools and turbosynth (no one remembers that) editing throughout. Now that I think of it, his way of home recording/analog+pt use/sample editing, etc really set the tone for how most records big and small are made these days.

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Re: Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

Post by madtho » Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:52 pm

touched1 wrote:And the sound that comes out of the borrowed amplifier that has been barely tweaked is unmistakebly Marc Ribot. It's great, it's effortless, it's how it should be. He was the sound. Not the amp, PA, or room.
There's even a chance it was a borrowed Line 6, and was indeed amazing.

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Re: Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

Post by soundguy » Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:55 pm

So you guys can maybe get a better gist of what Im saying here, if you sat me in that control room in front of all that gear and put the chili peppers in the other room, you would not have gotten that record, thats for sure. BSSM was a record that was fairly instrumental in my career choice and I use it as a mix reference all the time. Its eye opening to realize that something I had always assumed was done in a studio with all the accoutraments was recorded under the same conditions that I work in daily and it really put things into perspective for me- I shared my story to perhaps put some perspective on this for others. I always had this idea that even though it was a house, since it was such a big budget thing, they must have done all these things to the house and thats just not the case. There's no isolation, just a bunch of rooms. Its a really cool vibey house, but its just a house, I cant say that simply enough. With this in mind now and with the caliber of gear that is now available to everyday people Im really sorry, but the excuse of "home recording" is just total bullshit to me now. Its really about what you can bring as an engineer, its really about what you can bring as a band and sadly, from where Im listening, more and more people are bringing less and less of each to new recordings and its a total bummer. If you think about it, the motown studio was kind of a home studio as well, although they had isolation between the control room and the live room, think of all the shit that was done there.

I guess my point is, forget your opinion about RHCP or RR or Zeppelin and just realize that people have been making home recordings for a long time and changing the world with their home recordings. This is the place where everyone is always like "fuck the big studios, Im raising my glass to the hit factory closing, fuck the music industry", well, now Im raising the bar to that. How do your home recordings sound? You can get QUALITY gear at really affordable prices. You can use the exact software that the most expensive records on earth are made on. Classic records have been done at home, everyone here should start work on the new classic that will define todays time. Its easy to be intimidated by a big studio and big money, but when you consider who is working outside of stuffy studios and see some examples of great success, its really kinda hard to blame your shortcomings on your "home studio" even if it doesnt have a neve. Its easy to kick back and say, oh someday I'll record in a real studio and get it right then. Maybe focus on getting it right now, with what you have. Chances are, someone with 35 years of experience can come into your space with your gear and get it right. Stop focusing on what piece of gear to get next and what the hell glyn johns did on his drum tracking sessions and sit down, turn off the internet, look at the recording challenge that is in front of you, in your space with the gear that you are currently in possession of and just make a good recording. Its possible. After visiting my friend, for me, the sky is the limit now. If those records could be achieved in that space I know that at the very least, with the gear that I have, I should at least be meeting that standard and I surely have my work cut out for myself. Im guessing that after my reaction last night, that when I see the led zeppelin house I may want to actually kill myself.

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Re: Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

Post by cgarges » Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:12 pm

Thanks, Dave. And good luck in your endeavors. Seeing you that inspired is inspiring to me.

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Re: Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

Post by paulscary » Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:17 pm

I know nothing about this fabled "house".Just as a point of reference,does anyone have a list of the gear used.I agree.You can't polish a turd but it's probably nice to have a can of Turd Polish around--just in case....
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Re: Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

Post by jdsowa » Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:29 pm

I'm printing those 2 posts and scotch-taping them to the wall right above my equipment.

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Re: Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

Post by slimjw » Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:33 pm

Led Zep recorded a lot of their fourth record in Headley Grange, a space which, according to Page & Plant was mostly legendary for how cold it was all the time.

Supposedly the entry room where they had Bonham's drums set up for tracking had a great vibe though. The drums for Levee Breaks were recorded there with 2 mics through a Binson EchoRec (SP?) and compression of course. I think some of that info is from some of the Tape-Op interviews Andy or Glyn Johns did recently.

Great engineers, great players and great songs will always find a way to come out right. For the rest of us, there's Mastercard... :)

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Re: Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

Post by soundguy » Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:37 pm

I had a picture of the space with bonhams kit, it was in the foyer with the staircase, not at all the image I had in my head from listening to the record. Its also a smallish room. Beyond the stuff recorded there, most of physical graffiti and a good portion of houses of the holy and 3 was recorded in sombodys house. Presence was the first record since LZ2 that was done entirely in a studio, 7 years later.
I'm printing those 2 posts and scotch-taping them to the wall right above my equipment.
that'll be $35.

dave
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Re: Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

Post by MichaelAlan » Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:45 pm

I totally agree 100% with everything I'm typing right now.
All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet...

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Re: Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

Post by severe » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:19 pm

Harmony Head wrote:
soundguy wrote:Granted, a $200K console is wheeled in there,
In general i agree with most everything Soundguy said, and could tell he was pretty passionate about it, which is nice, (although you didn't have to rant at us.. as has been stated before, this board is one of the last places around that understands what you're saying brother..)

I will say one thing though. Part of getting better at what we do as engineers and producers is knowing why a $200,000 desk is better than the pres in a 001. And while i'm grateful for the things i learned when i had to work harder to get things sounding how i liked when a Joe Meek VC3 was the only pre i had, i'm quite enjoying not having to work so hard now that i have MUCH better gear at my disposal.

So while i agree with the general thing of what you're saying... that it's not about the room, it's all about people's skills etc... your 'granted' is a big one. A $200k desk is no guarantee, but if you're in the position to be working with one, your job sure did get a little easier..

HH


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Re: Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

Post by rolandk » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:28 pm

Sorry to go a little OT here, but since we are talking about Led Zep check out this thread at PSW: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index. ... fff767f725

Terry Manning, who worked on Led Zep III tells a pretty amazing story behind the record.
my band: Mission 5

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Re: Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

Post by signorMars » Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:26 pm

And c'mon man, those records were made with nearly anything, as far as gear, the artists wanted.
say that BSSM wasn't MIXED AND MASTERED in the same parallel walled house
I do agree in general with this but know that neve,neumann,ssl etc are used to make these sounds...along with all the time in the world...this "house" to is in the Hollywood Hills right...like some damn Clark Gable mansion. It is NOT a 12x16 garage...
I also know I could certainly do better recordings in a Hollywood mansion, albeit one with untreated, parallel walls, but a little more flexible than in the li'l house I'm working with.
i call bull shit. you're still making excuses... it's like being a little nervous high school boy all over with "she won't go out with me because i don't have a nice car/body/lots of money/enormous junk..." she won't go out with you because you are too fucking busy coming up with reasons why she should reject you to even just ask! or like all those bands who sit around talking about what they're going to do "when they get signed" or when "they make it big" but won't even get their shit together to rehearse. 95% of a good record is the music and the performance. watch the majority of really good engineers work... it's not "oh i owe all my hit records to this magic box right here." their skill comes from knowing every last detail about what they do have. i have heard amazing sounds come out of SM57s and total shit come out of 5000 dollar tube mics... so stop making fucking excuses and learn your gear! record something! stick a mic on your dryer and throw your shoes in there or something, then try to make it sound good. stick a radio in the middle of your room and try to find a good room sound! and quit bitching about how "well of course i could make platinum records with XYZ console that costs $200,000 and ABC microphones that cost $5,000 each." if you can't make things sound good with the gear you have, you can't make things sound good with the gear you don't have.

just work at it man... my recordings still kinda blow compared to most of the legendary top stuff, but i'm only 23 fucking years old, and i try to hit record every damn day so i can learn to make things sound better.... i remix all my old sessions just to see what each little frequency sounds like and how it affects the mix as a whole.

just quit complaining and record.
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Re: Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

Post by JGriffin » Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:36 pm

lonesome_tone wrote:what ever happened to the 'under the radar' column?
That can apparently be summed up with:
TapeOpLarry wrote:Tape Op gets sent a lot of home made CDs, and most suck.
"Jeweller, you've failed. Jeweller."

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