Blood Sugar Sex Magic and your F you indie spirit

[TapeOpLarry]

A big part of it. We really felt it was getting reptitive and wanted the space for more features. Columns suck up space and get boring. The other mags do great at that!

[Bear]

I recently did some work in a big time studio, where I was the sole engineer on the project (the label who owns the studio handed us the keys and wished us goodluck). The record is still in progress, but anyway, the place was fucking loaded. Lots of Blue Mics (all of them except the mouse, I think), stacks of Neumanns (some limited edition ones, too), Earthworks/avalon/manley/focusrite/api pres, distressors, 1176's ... you get the idea. Lots of crazy expensive stuff. Previous to this experience, I've worked with the gear I myself have bought - an mk319, a Rode NT1a, a 57, an RNC, and an ART pre. That's a pretty big leap to take. But not really. After working in this studio for a week, my home set-up didn't feel like any less. In fact, I appreciated it that much more. Everything I did at that studio I could have done at my house. Would the drums have sounded as good? Nope. Would the guitars have come out as clear? No way. Would the song have been as good? Yep. Maybe not sonically, but regardless of my situation, it still came down to how well we performed things. It was a total blast to work with all that gear, especially because we could get good sounds so much faster. And I don't think studios are worthless by any stretch, as this experience also showed me their worth as well. But again, I could have done what I did at the studio in my toolshed, and the music wouldn't have been better or worse on account of it.

So in short, I agree with the original post. I'm also not wearing pants as I type this, and I'm beating the shit out this bag of oreos. Already killed an entire row. Take that, waste line.

[Scodiddly]

Having equipment is nice, but it's like having guitars... it's more important to be able to play the damn things. Versus that wealthly blues nut who has a '57 Strat but can't play for shit!

These days I'm amazed at what the average joe can put together, compared to what we had in the 80's for home recording. Microphones, digital recording, even inexpensive hardware compressors. Not having gear is no longer an excuse.

Back in college in the student house we recorded a fair amount of demos to 4-track (a nice Tascam 1/4", using a Biamp mixer with spring reverb). The drums lived in a concrete room in the basement and were mic'd with Radio Shack PZMs, the guitar amp was mic'd with a Shure Green Bullet because that's all we had left after the drums. But really the only thing that bugs me about those recordings now is that the vocals really needed some compression. The important thing was that there were good songs and musicians.

[Rigsby]

Hmm... i mean maybe i'm missing something from the original post and i don't want to be rude but this kind of seems like a no-brainer, what would i rather have a great band with a shit recording or 'tother way round? - the answer's obvious, but once you have a good band, good ears and all that, i'd want the best gear possible to record it with, the best gear as defined by my ears, the most suitable mics for the applications etc etc. Of course there's less point recording shit bands with good equipment than the opposite, but once the obvious is taken care of then of course you want the best recording situation possible surely?

As for the indie spirit thing, sure maybe some people take it in a different direction, but to me that whole ethos is about 'hey, i want to do something and i'm going to do it' rather than worrying about obstacles to doing so, so why 'fuck you' to the spirit of that?

I guess what i mean by all of this (besides the debate over the nature of the 'indie spirit' and whether or not you like RHCP) is: is there an alternative view to the original post? Surely we all record to the best of our abilities, seek information and experiences to increase those abilities and try to record the best performances in the best environments that we can?

[MT]

I'm also not wearing pants as I type this, and I'm beating the shit out this bag of oreos. Already killed an entire row. Take that, waste line.

That's the reason I still read through this long-winded posts full of opinions no one really cares about. Cracking me up!

MT

[josh hates you]

i have recorded bad bands. and i have good recordings of them sounding bad. they blame me for the shitty recording but unless they drop the ego and let someone produce their sound they will sound like ass anywhere they record.

i have recorded some amazing bands live in one room with bad isolation and gotten amazing recordings.

good musicians make good records. period. bad bands can be overworked and overproduced until they sound good if you care to take the time.......but will they be able to sound like that live on stage?


#1 problem is poor technique. any instrument.

[joel hamilton]

A good friend of mine from high school is playing in a band and when he found out I was in LA, he's been hounding me to come stop in and say hello. Rick Rubin is producing the record, a guy who engineered this year's indie sensation is engineering and they are recording in the house where RHCP blood sugar sex magic was done, along with the recent system of a down, mars volta, etc. Ive had a very strong opinion about BSSM since it came out and visiting the house confirmed so much of what I had been thinking all these years.

This is gonna sound really harsh and I know Im gonna take shit for it but with the way the industry is going these days, I think Im really beyond caring about it. If you guys have a lousy recording on your hands, its not the recorder, its not the mic, its not the console, its not the monitoring, its not the guitar or the drum kit or any other inanimate object you want to scapegoat, its YOU. In case you werent listening, the problem isnt your gear, its you.

The people here that are going to respond with some name calling feel free and knock your socks off, for the rest of you still reading, if you are gonna believe any of the bullshit on the internet (which is for porn), this might be a good lesson to note. The house is really cool and all and I dont mean to sell it short, but its a house. Period. A house. Parallel walls are what the place is about, its not a studio, its a house. Granted, a $200K console is wheeled in there, but beyond that, its a house, just like all the houses all of you guys are recording in with all the same problems your houses have. Yet, in spite of that, records that absolutely FORM generations are made in this space and the whole thing is very "tapeop" once you cut through the budget the pre-empts things there. Why do these records sound good? No, its not because of some fancy mic, no its not entirely because of some fancy console, its because of human talent. TALENT that makes these records, not equipment. The gear that is available to these guys of course makes the flow much easier to work with, but in the big picture, its only slightly relevant, its talent that makes this shit happen, its talent that makes it sound good and its talent that pulls it off.

The next time you feel like you need to spend money, or the next time that you are blaming your gear for the problem you are having, try to remind yourself of this and put things in perspective. Spending money will NOT solve your problems in so many of these cases. Buying the next new and hip thing will not solve your problems in so many of these cases. Following the advice of the internet guru of your chosing (I suppose this post included) will not solve your problems in so many of these cases. Its up to you and you alone. Not you and some gear, not you and some fancy studio, you skills alone.

I hate to break it to the nose turning fuck you indie Im so cool because I fuck the system types that read this board, but rick rubin is making platinum records in pretty much exactly the same acoustic environment as so many of the people that read this board. These records are recorded in a home fucking studio. Will you all please take a bite of this fucking sandwich and get over yourselves and start making good records? This shit doesnt need to be done in a million dollar studio and while the example Im citing has all the power in the universe available, certainly you dont need that to make a good record.

BSSM was a record that meant a lot to me as a kid and after hanging out there tonight, there are no more excuses for anything anymore. If you make a record that isnt that good, its your fault as an engineer for not delivering and its the bands fault as a band for not delivering and that is really the end of it. Theres just nothing special about the "studio" or the gear or anything that contributed to that record beyond the talent of the people who wrote the songs, the talent of the people who arranged the songs, the talent of the people who performed the songs, the talent of the people who recorded the songs, the talent of the people who mixed the songs and the talent of the guy that made it all work together so beautifully.

There is a human element to this game that is entirely overlooked and instead all anyone focuses on is the aspect of the gear, and of course they do just because its so easy to scapegoat a mic pre or a drum kit or a console or whatever. Start owning up to your own shortcomings and forget about upgrading your gear annd start focusing on upgrading your skills as an engineer. You guys are the future of music and currently from where I stand, music sucks. Dont let the future be comprised of a bunch of guys recoridng music who only ever looked at gear. Forget all the fucking gear and the best mic pre for under $100 and how cool you are because you fucked the system and just be real and look at yourselves and improve your skills. Making a record is easy if you let it be, make a good recording and when it sucks dont blame your pre, look at the real problems and do everything in your power to improve it. With an attitude like that, you can take a house, a tape deck and a dream and change the world. Jimmy Page recorded his band, Led Zeppelin at home and ruled the world. Rick Rubin has been making records at home since the early 90's and not only impacted my generation with a 30 ton weight with a home recording of the chili peppers, but continues to slay kids in high school today with home recordings of mars volta and system of a down. You can make all the excuses you want and you can scapegoat these people for having money all day long but these records were recorded in squares with parallel walls and ceilings and floors, acoustically hostile spaces, JUST LIKE YOURS and they totally rule becaue the people involved had some talent and a vision and the ability to achieve a goal: the realization of a vision.

you can do this. Lose your attitude and get inspired.

dave

Right on, man. So totally right on.
Interesting "angry" angle to it, but so completely right on!

[chetatkinsdiet]

After just wasting the better part of an hour here at my day job, I thought I'd drop in for an opinion to Dave's original post.

I couldn't agree more to what you said. Performance, performance, performance. That's all that matters to get a good song. I think where some of the guys are missing the point, is that yeah, once you've got a great band like this, or you've got the skills to record, you definitely can start to tell the difference between an API pre and a Neve. And one will matter more than the other. Of course, the sound of GC or pro-sumer gear will pale in comparison to API, Neve, Urei,etc.
OK, here's a way to look at it. Bring in all the cast of characters, engineers and all from the Exile on Main Street sessions. Put them in your recording space with all your gear. Would it sound much different? Better? Worse?
I know that we've got a broad range of gear from all of us, but on average, most of us have a handful of decent pres, one or two nice compressors and some decent mics. That's really all you need for proper tracking.
I've come to the conclusion that I'm never going to be able to mix and master at my place. But, I can track just fine.
Also, don't just limit this discussion to records that were recorded in a residential home. Let's expand it to include all those records that were done in spaces that were not pro studios.
Mowtown was a basement.
Sunn was a gas station.
Staxx was a movie theater.
Rudy Van Gelder did amazing stuff in his house.
It's all about making the artists comfortable and getting that magic performance out of them. If they've got it in them, and you can get it out, then you could record it on anything and I'm sure it'd be listenable.
Later,
m

[jeddypoo]

Sound quality is overrated.

[kayagum]

As much as I love reading Soundguy's rants, I think you can boil down the majority of complaints and questions on this board to two words:

USER ERROR

And the one word answer:

TECHNIQUE

Cheap gear + No Technique = Shit
Nice Gear + No Technique = Shit
Cheap Gear + Technique = Interesting, potentially Classic
Nice Gear + Technique = Classic

Of course, it helps that the musicians are worth recording... just a minor detail

[Rigsby]

Psst... you forgot about the songs...

[YOUR KONG]

Yeah - it occurred to me that songs and musicianship are rarely discussed on this or any recording board -- because it's something engineers usually have no control over!

[kayagum]

Psst... you forgot about the songs...

True, true.

I just assume good musicians have good taste in the music they write or perform.

That's how you can separate shred-head guitarists from real guitarists (think Yngwie vs. Ribot).

Or why great idiot-savants like Johnny Ramone are so great

[Huntlabs]

I sit here reading through four pages of this thread, ignoring my studio upstairs.... I realize that I need to do a better job as an engeneer. Dave is right. I've been lazy in the studio. I don't experiment enough to get exactly the sound I want. I get it close enough and go. Sometimes time, the lack of it, just kills me. The last tracking session I did I spent about 30 minutes trying to dial in sounds and my bandmates started getting really fucking impatient. So I just ran with what I had.

I also spend too much time obsessing about gear. I do think there is a balance between good gear and good product. On good musicians there is no room to argue. You do have to spend some money. But how much? How much gear? But if the Beatles were recording on an Mbox I bet it would sound great. (I'm still buying a stereo pair...upgrading my converters... getting a better clock...I don't give a F, I have the money.)

I had an "ear opening" experience when I was checking out mics on Saturday. I have a 68 Super Reverb and I have never been able to really capture the sound with a mic. I set up to do a comparison test on a bunch of LDC's and as an after thought put an SM57, e609 and a D6 up close. The SM57 is a great fucking mic. Mixed with any of the LDC's it sounded great, better than either alone. I'd been in the mindset that it was too cheap to do as good a job as an expensive LDC. I knew it was a popular guitar mic but I had my blinders on to use a LDC. I was a dumbfuck, and may still be...

Thanks for your post Dave! I think I'll print it out. Maybe it should run in TapeOp?

Anyone know where I can buy some time? Maybe I can spend less time surfing the internet and reading TapeOp posts? I have learned a lot by spending time here though.

I'm going upstairs... to hit record.

[rimbaud234]

Rick R. sends his engineer out to a studio with a DAT machine and a snare drum and has him record the sound of the solo snare in the room to see if he wants to record there.