My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at home

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Family Hoof
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Re: My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at

Post by Family Hoof » Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:20 pm

SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ wrote:I think it's kind of silly you are getting mad that your client wants to record at home. You said yourself you used to work in "real" studios and now have a home studio. You might as well be mad at yourself.
The projects I do at home are with bands who could never afford to record at a real studio anyway and I'm getting paid next to nothing. Yes, we'd all love to work in real facilities (both myself and the clients) but it's not fiscally possible.
Anyone can hit record, but it takes real talent to make a record.
EXACTLY! Their talent is is writing and performing and mine is in recording. I've always made myself available for very little and sometimes even free. They've always done their own recordings for various reasons but when it's something that counts and will be released (like in this case) they come to me to make it happen. Not anymore. This upsets me because I fear they will release a subpar product, and I care about this band and their records.

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Re: My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at

Post by Mr. Dipity » Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:27 pm

blame it on the gear wrote: EXACTLY! Their talent is is writing and performing and mine is in recording. I've always made myself available for very little and sometimes even free. They've always done their own recordings for various reasons but when it's something that counts and will be released (like in this case) they come to me to make it happen. Not anymore. This upsets me because I fear they will release a subpar product, and I care about this band and their records.
Do you care enough to watch them spite you, trip themselves up, and then help them pick up the peices? If so, then nothing much has happened. One shitty release will make them all the more reliant on you. If they lose faith and give up what they are doing, however, then this would be a problem.

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Re: My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at

Post by bigtoe » Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:53 pm

"This upsets me because I fear they will release a subpar product, and I care about this band and their records."

do the best you can but this will drive you absolutely nuts...

i find they make the record they want to make not matter what - you can beg and moan and cajole and pitch in time and money even...if they are at the wheel - you are along for the ride...some of them honestly start a project with it being the "non-studio" thing...where it's fun to do something different...

sounds like you may try to get content in the back seat or just getting out of the car...

good luck...there's always another project...and trust me it is fun getting to know these people as fellow recordists.

Mike

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Re: My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at

Post by b3groover » Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:12 pm

eeldip wrote:
cgarges wrote:Sure. It's happened. It's a bummer, too, but it's only going to happen more and more. I can't compete with "free."
well, its not really free:

instead of musicians spending money on getting nice instruments and spendin time rehearsing and then periodically throw down some tour money for recording, we are spending all our money on instruments AND recording gear, so now we can only afford crappy versions of both. then instead of plunking down money and recording a record in 3 days we are lazily working on records for years.

maybe its just me.
Yep.

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Re: My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at

Post by bannerj » Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:34 pm

this whole thread seems to have more to do with issues of trust between creative friends than a home recording vs studio recording issue. This guy is just upset because he has established a serious connection to this band and now they aren't interested in working with him.

How many closer friends have you guys had who said they were going to record with you and then decided to work with somebody else? I just had three...freaking THREE projects fall through. I had deposits from two of them and the third actually took me out for dinner to talk through the details. All three were good friends. Two of them bailed because they freaked out about money (and I am affordable) and the third heard that a label was looking at him...and decided to go for something higher end at another friend's place.

These kinds of things suck. But they happen and we have to get over it and move on. I turned around and out of no where got to spend three days working with one of my favorite local bands...and if I had been working with the other jokers (still good friends....but loosers none the less...jk..jk!) I wouldn't have been able to spend the time with this other better band.

So to the guy who started the thread...get out to some venues...meet some new talent...get fired up about somebody else and pour yourself into them. Turn out some new amazing shit and you'll feel better.

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Re: My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at

Post by Tim Casey » Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:52 pm

Ummm... I'm the tutoring guy with the girl and her two kids, I'm not the guy who started the thread.
Jeez - what's the best way to say "I wasn't paying attention and I feel like a stupid idiot?" :oops:

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Re: My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at

Post by Family Hoof » Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:07 pm

bannerj wrote:this whole thread seems to have more to do with issues of trust between creative friends than a home recording vs studio recording issue. This guy is just upset because he has established a serious connection to this band and now they aren't interested in working with him.
Yes! Thank you! The debatable issue is just underlying in this instance.

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Re: My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at

Post by AstroDan » Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:17 pm

It doesn't matter. There's still only going to be about 5 listenable records put out a year until the end of time, no matter how easy or how many people try to make one.
"I have always tried to present myself as the type of person who enjoys watching dudes fight other dudes with iron claws."

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Re: My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at

Post by Dingo » Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:31 pm

I had a similar experience recently. I was coaching/producing a band for a few months once a week with the goal of making a record together. Two weeks before the date they kick me to the curb and make a really shitty record. They ignored everything I said and it shows. Schadenfreude (delight in another person's misfortune) at its finest. Just enjoy the schadenfreude and keep communication open because eventually they'll figure it out and you want to be there to pick up the pieces of their shattered life. Maybe it's not that bad but you get the idea.

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Re: My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at

Post by joelpatterson » Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:14 pm

Mr. Dipity wrote:
joelpatterson wrote:Ummm... I'm the tutoring guy with the girl and her two kids, I'm not the guy who started the thread.

$10/hr is highway robbery, in this case.
Agreed.

How much would you get for babysitting?
Under the circumstances I described... I AM BABYSITTING!
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Re: My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at

Post by Mr. Dipity » Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:35 pm

joelpatterson wrote: Under the circumstances I described... I AM BABYSITTING!
Are you licensed? Because if you aren't, I really think that you should be giving her a discount.

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Re: My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at

Post by Moon Unit » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:17 pm

trevord wrote:I may be wrong, but i interpreted this section of larry's reply as "this really a hassle - if you want to work like this i have to pass the cost of the hassle on to you" my response would be
"its a hassle because you are doing things the old way - find a way to work which is not a hassle"

there are reasons why 8 hrs is not practical
how many of your customers have a day job?

Sorry to but in to this converstation, but I had to give my 2 cents on this one ... The whole 1 or 2 hour sessions thing ... it just isn't going to work. Yea, yea, I know, I know. Then find a way to make it work, bla bla bla bla bla

I'm sorry, but do the math. It just doesn't add up. Even with the very miniscule likelihood that you'll be able to book five 2-hour sessions in a day, there's going to have to be an awful lot of juggling around, which would be a major hassle to the customer.

Think about it. I've got electric bills, rent due ... I'd like to eat or take my girl out once in a blue moon. I've got 3 1-hour sessions booked for Wednesday, and that's it. Three stinkin' hours, let's assume it's at $40 / hour. I've got a whomping $120 coming in for Wednesday.

Heating bill's still sitting on the coffee table. Phone rings ... it's business! Yay! "What's that? You say you want all day Wednesday? Sorry man, I'd love to, but no can do. I got the conga dude coming in at noon, skin flute guy at 1, and the Whitney Houston Karaoke chick at 3."

Remember, you gotta' be booked a lot in order to pay the bills. Invevitably, people's slots would have to be shuffled around like crazy in order to insure this. There will be conflicts; rember, these are musicians you're dealing with. This would mean you'd be spending a good deal of studio time hustling and juggling on the phone finessing the schedule. Moving this guy to that slot in order to accomodate some extra business in the other, because that's the only possible day they can make it. etc. etc.

Meanwhile, your customer just spilled grape juice all over his congas and the rappers who recorded an hour before left the place a total mess. You don't have any time to clean up for the weird Nursery Rhym narrator who's spot you had to move up in order to fit in the conga dude's yukaleli-playing brother who can fill a whomping three hour slot -- which will allow you that extra 50 bucks you need for the phone bill.

Now I don't know what your feelings are about working with an engineer who's constantly distracted, but I would imagine it wouldn't sit well with a lot of people. Clients want your undivided attention, and they expect it. Playing Joe Hustler on the cell phone juggling schedules while you should be tracking isn't a good way to foster repeat business -- which you better have an awful lot of if you plan on being constantly booked with back-to-back 2-hour sessions every day.

I could see maybe hiring a scheduler to do all the hustling for you. This would work out great, in fact, and I can see where this would fit in to the whole 1-2 hour bookings thing. It would take a pretty organized and shrewd character to manage it, and it would likely be a full-time job.

Now guess who's going to wind up paying for that guy? Either the customer ... or the Electric company who's bills I can no longer afford to pay. Maybe you don't mind recording congas to candle light?
Last edited by Moon Unit on Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at

Post by mertmo » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:30 pm

This upsets me because I fear they will release a subpar product, and I care about this band and their records.
You are letting yourself become emotionally attached to the outcome of a situation that you do not have control over. If I have learned ANYTHING in this life so far, it's that this is the ultimate mistake a human can make.
The ability to care about something, do the work to put it in motion, and then let go of whether or not it actually comes to fruition the way we plan it is the ultimate freedom.

You need to let it go, brother.

Don't take this post the wrong way. The only reason I can see this so clearly is that I screw it up all the fucking time. It is one of the things I have to consciously work on in my life. In fact, I predict the same situation later this year with a client of mine who is a great friend. I made his latest record and it rules. I can just feel that he will do it with someone else the next time, because last time I basically did it for free, and he knows that I won't do it again.

Letting go of the outcome of a situation you care about is a hard, hard thing to do. Easy to think about, but putting it into practice kills...

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Re: My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at

Post by TapeOpLarry » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:33 pm

Thanks Moon Unit. My sentiments dead on. If someone can make a go of one hour studio sessions, be my guest. I'd rather take the day off than do three one hour different shifts!

I did just "hire" someone to book my studio and keep it running. I can't keep up. And just so Trevor knows, Jackpot! is really busy these days (and just turned eight) so I think I made the right choices regarding gear and not catering to the one hour crowd.

I'm about to sit down and watch part of "Looking For a Thrill", a Thrilljockey DVD with interviews with 112 musicians who tell of their defining moments of musical inpiration. Should be cool!
Larry Crane, Editor/Founder Tape Op Magazine
please visit www.tapeop.com for contact information
(do not send private messages via this board!)
www.larry-crane.com

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Re: My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at

Post by trevord » Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:24 pm

ok, ok
cant argue with facts and numbers - you got me convinced

maybe one hour is a little drastic
but i did say and additional hour for setup

now at least i undestand why i cant get any studio to agree to that :)

are there studios set up were there is a dead vocal-size booth permanently outfitted with a high quality mic, pre-amp
and always setup to track at a moments notice?
(well not really a moments - but with reduced booking "hassle")

ot maybe thats a topic for another thread
;)

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