My oldest client has betrayed me by trying to record at home

[Rigsby]

I have to take issue with the whole premise of this thread: LOOK WHAT MY CLIENT HAS DONE TO ME! HOW COULD SHE BETRAY ME THIS WAY?

She was going to your studio to create her music, not to make you happy. Now she wants to try it on her own - because it's something she wants to do, not because she's trying to piss you off.

Her music comes first. You come second. Get used to it.

Plus, here she is trying to deal with a five-year-old and a two-year-old, and you're whining about how she's not paying enough attention to your needs and wants.

Get over it.

Personally, I've always preferred recording myself because I don't have deep pockets and don't want to simultaneously try to be creative while watching the meter running. And I've gotten great results.

You should be charging her your full hourly rate for tutoring, by the way. Look how you're betraying yourself now....

He does kind of have a point, and it's probably not at all as personal as you're seeing it.

[joelpatterson]

Ummm... I'm the tutoring guy with the girl and her two kids, I'm not the guy who started the thread.

$10/hr is highway robbery, in this case.

[bigtoe]

They are. In my city there are more recording studios than ever. I mean EVER.

see but i bet most of these are home recording guys throwing their nets out...not necessarily studios up to the task. big difference...

all of the folks i record record themselves in one way or another...always have...they like assisting with me i like talking to them and seeing how they do stuff...and i'd assist if they did sessions but most record themselves. we all hang...i get emails all day asking questions...i like looking at it is a collaborative thing...most studios that are keeping the head above do to.

the days when you put the shingle on the door and people come are way over. too cheap to do it other ways...work with it - not against it...or don't work! it's a bummer in some ways...

anyway - good luck! my desk is on fire,
MIke

[lsn110]

Two out of three of my last sessions a my studio involved artists working up songs from scratch with no set ideas of how they would sound. There was no set band, we were calling people in to play, and structures would change a bit, instrumentation was up in the air and everything was open to question.

That's great and in my opinion that option should be open to everybody. Hell, it's the way I work. The trick is that I can't afford to do that sort of thing in a commercial space. Would my stuff sound different (read better) if it was done in Jackpot? Probably. Can I afford the time required to work that way. Not really. No one's paying my bills but me. I doubt that will change anytime soon. Someday I will pay a studio for 2 weeks and hole up in it...but I can't stop making music in the meantime.

That's really the reason I started recording myself. Of course, as things progressed I wound up recording other people and buying things like a Trident 65 and most recently a plate. It all almost turned commercial, but thanks to some crazy changes I moved from Boston to upstate NY. Now, I'm making more (of my own) music than ever, and my studio partner seems to be working at Zippah every other night. As far as I'm concerned, things are great.

I am part of the problem, at least on the surface. Then again, I recognize the value of recording with other people in other rooms more than I ever did when I started recording myself. That brings me to those places for the things I need. I have to look at it this way. For me the process of recording is my favorite part of making music. If I didn't start recording myself, I'd likely have a different hobby (like building Linux servers or some such dorky nonsense) and then I'd never ever hit up a "real" studio.

I'm rambling.

As far as the original post. Different engineers impart different qualities... I wouldn't be insulted by a former client taking a project elsewhere. People do things for many many reasons, and it's likely that you aren't the problem. I'd talk to her nonetheless.

[bobbydj]

They are. In my city there are more recording studios than ever. I mean EVER.

see but i bet most of these are home recording guys throwing their nets out...not necessarily studios up to the task. big difference...

No. These are 'real' studios - proper live rooms, iso'd control room. Some digital, some tape. Back when I was in bands, 10-15 years ago, we had to travel 30-40 miles to studios. If I was doing the same today I wouldn't have to travel 5. There're at least 6 such studios in a city of 1/3m people.

[bigtoe]

you know same with cle, bobby - yer right...i remember back in the 80's a little ...different studio scene for sure...

recording is the hoola hoop.

Mike

[bobbydj]

I mean, I dunno whether these places will be there next year. Y'know. And I'm really unclear why they sprang up in the first place. I think a lot of it's specific to this city though.

[Mr. Dipity]

Ummm... I'm the tutoring guy with the girl and her two kids, I'm not the guy who started the thread.

$10/hr is highway robbery, in this case.

Agreed.

How much would you get for babysitting?

[jeddypoo]

I think the debate is entirely dependent on what kind of music you do, what kind of/quality a musician you are, and how much time/money you have.

For me, self-recording is the very essence of my thing, musically. I haven't recorded in a studio for 6 years. I don't have the money to be on a clock and since I play everything on the records anyway, I'd rather not deal with other people, for the most part. I think the sound that I get has actually influenced the kind of music that I do, and in a good way. Studios are hugely important. And no every home or self-recordist can do recordings that sound halfway decent. My friend just recorded his band on his Mac using much better apps and gear than me and compared to what I do it sounds like a mentally retarded goat recorded his. It's all about experience and creativity. He thought he could just plug in and press record. Wrong.

Anyway, if anything, there are just going to be more bad recordings done of expensive shit. I don't think it will hurt studios in the long stretch.

[Jeremy Garber]

I think it's kind of silly you are getting mad that your client wants to record at home. You said yourself you used to work in "real" studios and now have a home studio. You might as well be mad at yourself.

If I were you, I would let go of my ego and encourage these musicians to try to do it themselves. I would offer them consulting for a fee, and then offer to do a final mix on their project for a fee. I would even rent some of my equipment to them.

I am a musician. I have a home studio. Eventually I want to record other people when I have the proper space and equipment.

Anyone can hit record, but it takes real talent to make a record.

[trevord]

first, let me say i have the utmost respect for larry
and feel hopelessly inadequate in any debate with him about this topic
but
i think his reply shows that here is a funadmental mind-shift going on that requires studio owners to re-think who represents the majority of their future customers
responses inserted below

Buying hourly recording time in a studio is a great idea for the client but hell for the studio manager. "Are you doing sessions or are you making an album." Different things.
.

I included the comment about "cowbell next week" to show if i could find a studio run like this it would be one hour everyday every week. That studio would be a replacement for my home studio. The managerial comment is correct, but maybe there is room for improvement there.
Maybe if you had web based booking, with a calendar for both engineers and rooms.
With your equipment list posted so the customer can select what he wants during that time.
Accepted credit card payment (with non-refundable deposits) over the web
Time must be booked a week in advance.
Your server then generates automatic studio sheets and emails to the repsective professionals
Then the management might be a little easier.
My main point on this is that with a service option like i outlined i would develop a relationship with the studio over a time with regular bookings so the cost/hassle tradeoff of recording music makes the decision to go to a studio easier.

I may be wrong, but i interpreted this section of larry's reply as
"this really a hassle - if you want to work like this i have to pass the cost of the hassle on to you"
my response would be
"its a hassle because you are doing things the old way - find a way to work which is not a hassle"

there are reasons why 8 hrs is not practical
how many of your customers have a day job?
working this way means customer doesnt pay for think/creative time.

Trevor also said:
"i cant find any studios to operate in the above manner
i dont want know your high prices are justified by the money you overspent
if you say you cant book anything less than 8 hours - i think you are too busy and/or you are not efficient i would be in your studio everyday if you can supply the above."

These statements make no sense. So I've got $150,000 worth of gear so I can accomodate many different sessions and requests - but I overspent? I charge less than many of my competitors just so I don't scare off cool music... Not efficient? Any engineer that works frequently in the same studio can work circles around most home recordists time-wise. And if you were in my studio every day then why not book 8 hours?

(remember i am using the proverbial "you" meaning "studio owner" here)
that is a gamble you decided to make - if you thought your broad range of equipment would get you more customers and it does - fine
it your customers are few - then you overspent - i would recommend looking at what the majority of your bookings are and keep that equipment on hand - rent the rest when needed,
it's ok to pass the cost to me.
Thats why i mentioned a required skill is the ability, thru your knowledge/reputation/contacts you can find and rent equipment that you dont have in the studio.

It's like asking a crew to come out and paint one wall of your house at a time - it's gonna cost a hell of a lot more to do it that way or that painting crew is gonna go out of business. My two cents and more.
Thanks.

True
but there is a fundamental shift that is taking place

it was once good business sense to buy and inventory all raw materials in advance to control supply
now we "just in time" manufacturing

auto makers used to make everything in-house - now they have completely automated web-based "reverse auctions" where outside contractors compete for sub-assembly contracts

it used to be cost efficient to have the entire corporation in one location to reduce cost - now we have off-shoring

the point is - things change
how many studios would compete right now if i put an add up on a site with my original post - inviting studios to bid
what if this site had many potential customers and many studios?
what if this site had a shared collection of equipment available to all member studios?
what if this site had a shared set of professionals available to all member studios?
what if rate/availability/minimum booking were all included in the list of available equipment/professionals?
what if studios make a bid on project - and i get an email listing studio name. location, past work related to my project (mp3 example), 360 deg. room views (like the real estate sites), engineer resume, cost breakdown?

what if this site was tape-op?

my main point is -
Things have changed -
it is true you cant meet current demands by doing things the old way
but the solution is not insisting things should be done the old way
the solution is changing the way studios do business to meet the new needs

[trevord]

The original request was for an hour to record conga loops: creative source material to be manipulated into as-yet unconceived musical ideas. A better analogy would be for a modern art painter to go to the paint store, and be expected to mix all the paints he expects to use for his next, unplanned, painting in one go, in order to make things make more economic sense for the store.

you hit the nail on the squarely on the head
i usualy compose with synths and samplers and replace tracks that cant be done well with synths and samplers
typicaly electric guitar, hi-hats, brass and percussion for groove.

for these instruments it is still cheaper to hire a musician, and pay a studio to record a real musician than to buy a set of quality samples which can come close to reality.

but this is not the only reason

here is a situation which just happened to me
a friend who is a calypso singer from trinidad recently recorded a vocal track at my "home studio" in California (using the term studio loosely ) for a band in sweden on a sunday morning.
He is an famous in the world of calypso and has released an album every year for the last 30 yrs. Those of you who know calypso - know this is not that un-common but my point is he puts down tracks in all types of studios and knows how to find one if he needs one.

Why did he decide to come to me
because
i was available on a sun morning
i knew how to ftp the instr. track from the sweden site, setup so i could record him, manipulate start times so it syncs with the sewedn track and finaly ftp the tracks back to the sweden site
was i the best for the job - definitely not

my point is even old school style recording requires some flexibility in approach

[Mr. Dipity]

Not efficient? Any engineer that works frequently in the same studio can work circles around most home recordists time-wise. And if you were in my studio every day then why not book 8 hours?

Herein lies the next problem that awaits professional recording engineers. That 'work circles around most home recordists' is going to become 'work circles around many home recordists' which in turn will become 'work circles around some home recordists' before you know it.

For arguments sake, let's pretend I'm in the category of home recordists that won't be worked circles around - especially if you compare me in my home rig, with you in your studio. How are you going to cater to me?

My numbers are growing daily.

[joeysimms]

I can only speak from my own point of view, and the music that I am making. But, what we have here are two fundamentally different ways to go about making music and, I suspect, two fundamentally different styles of music. What you are seeing in the home recording world is a case where song demos are worked on until they become finished ideas. This requires an environment suitable for experimentation, relaxed doodling about, and where the line between composing and engineering are blurred into one and feed on each other.

Recording studios are designed for a completely different style of work, require a different set of work ethics, and attempt to achieve a completley different set of musical goals. When you go to a recording studio, you need your songs practiced, rehearsed and have ideally played them out all over town. When I sit down at my home rig to start something, I'm at the other end of that process. In short, recording studios are designed for recording. Home studios are being used for composing.

Actually, most bands who have recourse to a recording budget WILL do a fair amount of composing, or at least refining, in a studio as well. same as the home-recording guy/gal.

For the musician with no recording budget, it makes sense to have rehearsed every scrap you plan to track, but, I would rather save a little more $$ and pad myself with time, i.e., have someone like Larry for an entire week or 2, so that we can make something happen together, rather than rush in for a 2 day quickie and hope to get 6 songs done. Not that bands can't do that, either, but in general, people really underestimate the amount of time needed to do things..

[trianglelines]

I guess I didn't understand part of the initial concern...

You know, I've worked with people with halfway decent gear where we got along pretty good and I would say I was "happy" with the results. That doesn't mean I didn't suspect I might be able to do better if I had more control over the circumstances (like the nagging impression that my desire to punch in a vocal phrase for the fourth time wasn't annoying my engineer/friend).

So, maybe your friend/client needs to go learn, and if she doesn't get a result that exceeds the results of her collaboration with you (artist <--> recordist IS a collaboration) she will want to either "return to the fold." ... or she will have found a new way to work that suits her that may not include you, or some other variant between those poles.

Just because your past work together was mutually satisfactory, it does not preclude her working in other ways where she likes the results better or differently. There is a multi-dimensional relationship here - friend, collaborator and client - feeling hurt when your friend doesn't want to "hang" with you is totally understandable. If it is a client / studio relationship then it is just business, you know?

-TimT